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March 19, 2003

If this is degeneration....

From Pontikos exposed: "3. Pontikos says that race-mixing is actually a good thing and has very positive effects!;"




Kristin Kreuk, Sino-Dutch Canadian.

Posted by razib at 10:51 PM




Interesting statement coming from Mr. "I only date white". Seems like you would prefer brown (either Hispanic or Indian, in this case) women, then, who are a mix of two or three races.

Having known quite a few "hapas", I can say that Ms. Kreuk is an exception. Most mixed Asian/white mixes aren't very attractive, at least in my opinion.

Posted by: Oleg at March 20, 2003 12:09 AM


Is that Dawn from Buffy? Or Lois from Smallville?

I don't watch TV anymore so its hard to keep these people straight.

Posted by: Jacqueline at March 20, 2003 12:20 AM


oleg, i live in oregon-my chances to date non-white are rather slim, so i can use that excuse. and yeah, kk isn't typical-but mixes (at least asian-white ones) aren't any uglier than their parents, often are a step up.

and i haven't said "i only date white," just "i don't date brown."

SMALLVILLE jaq. speaking of bamboo-jungle fever, found yourself an asian guy yet? :)

Posted by: razib at March 20, 2003 12:23 AM


oh, and of course, i just wanted to have an excuse to put up a pic of a pretty girl. just before duende pointed that out :)

Posted by: razib at March 20, 2003 12:24 AM


How come you don't date brown? Do you consider brown ugly?

Posted by: a brown at March 20, 2003 01:35 AM


i have a preoccupation with the germanic jaw-line :)

also-i am muslim by background, but an atheist by profession, so i doubt i would be acceptable to most browns in any case. most hindus assume i'm muslim (my last name is very muslim)-and when muslims ask me if i want to go the mosque and i tell them i don't believe in any of that shit, well, they keep their distance too....

oh, i am more attracted to girls my own height-i'm not super tall (5'8/5'9), but a lot of brown girls are short.

Posted by: razib at March 20, 2003 01:42 AM


You cannot take the best examples of multi/biracial people to vouch for racial mixing. One may take the examples of Naomi Campbell, Lucy Liu and Geri Halliwell for racial purity.

Posted by: Subrato at March 20, 2003 04:59 AM


Oleg:
"Having known quite a few "hapas", I can say that Ms. Kreuk is an exception. Most mixed Asian/white mixes aren't very attractive, at least in my opinion."

Well, I think there is a 'romantic' notion in the media that biracial individuals are ALWAYS going to be good- looking. And, I understand that you may very well have different standards of beauty than many others. However, I doubt most people would agree with you that most Asian/ White mixes aren't attractive.

I've seen a lot of ugly, attractive and avg biracial individuals across the spectrum. IMO, they don't always look like KK but I wouldm't say most of them are ugly either.

Posted by: -R at March 20, 2003 05:29 AM


Subrato:
"You cannot take the best examples of multi/biracial people to vouch for racial mixing. One may take the examples of Naomi Campbell, Lucy Liu and Geri Halliwell for racial purity."

I don't really disagree with this statement, but let me point out Naomi Campbell is almost assuredly part Oriental.

Posted by: -R at March 20, 2003 05:30 AM


"oh, and of course, i just wanted to have an excuse to put up a pic of a pretty girl. just before duende pointed that out :)"

Rats! You're too quick for me!

Posted by: duende at March 20, 2003 10:56 AM


one point-i suspect that the first generation of mixes are probably better looking than their parents (unevans recessive features evening out). on the other hand, these features won't "breed true," so you wouldn't expect it to continue in racially mixed populations that are re-crossed. hybrids don't breed true. assuming that heterosis matters for attractiveness...

Posted by: razib at March 20, 2003 11:21 AM


Victoria Jolly, Miss HK 2002 2nd place. (no one liked the first place girl, a UC Davis student). Cerina Da Graca, another mixed girl, won Miss HK 2002 5th place and Miss Photogenic. That makes 40% Eurasians among the top 5, an overrepresentation of about 50x relative to population =) Cerina also won "Audience Favorite" among mainland viewers in Guangdong, so the preference for mixed girls isn't just a Hong Kong colonial thing.

Also see Maggie Q and Fiona Braidwood. Enough pretty girls to keep you occupied for a while? =)

Posted by: Eric at March 20, 2003 02:35 PM


I just really wasn't super impressed with Victoria J or Fiona B., but Maggie Q. was impressive. Those weren't necessarily the most sexy pictures of the women to necessarily guage how good looking they are.

Razib:
"one point-i suspect that the first generation of mixes are probably better looking than their parents (unevans recessive features evening out). on the other hand, these features won't "breed true," so you wouldn't expect it to continue in racially mixed populations that are re-crossed. hybrids don't breed true. assuming that heterosis matters for attractiveness..."

I suspect this is true for first generations with avg to ugly parents. KK or Maggie Q are better looking against the AVERAGE women of any race- but I suspect most people wouldn't believe they could ever go toe to toe with most of the super hot Blonde monoracials- i.e. Razib's St. Paulie girl.

Basically, if you like Caucasoid features (like so much of the world), to me it is dubious whether you'd actually find the daughter of a really hot Caucasoid chick (i.e. Patty Manterola, Raveena Tandon, Christie Brinkley...) and a non- Caucasoid father to be better looking than her mother- on average.

Please note, I am not saying they won't likely have enough good looking genes to be considered good looking- just that they may not necessarily be in the ultra elite class of their super hot Caucasoid parent.

I also know some may quibble with me using Patty Manterola or Raveena Tandon as examples of pure bred 'Caucasoid' women (as opposed to being mixed as well) but I am mainly going by facial features:

Most Indian women don't look like this:
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/4195/raveena.htm

Most Mexicans don't look like this:
http://gallery.kicks-ass.net/content/PattyManterola/patty1.htm

Please, GC, let's get this cloning thing started ASAP.

Posted by: -R at March 20, 2003 04:53 PM


the american ideal is the blonde-so you are right, no non-white woman can by definition be the hottest of them all (non-white chix that do the blonde thing generally look weird-like having blue hair something). from what i remember, the ancient east asian cultures considered light eyes or light hair deviant and unattractive-but light skin as good. i think that tendency was correct for most non-white cultures aside from weirdlets like the australian aborigines who had blondeness run in women and children (and considered it attractive). but now western beauty standards have influenced a lot of the world-japanese browning their hair, etc.

they need to do that baby test of little kids starting at hot models and see if they look at blondes longer. and babies of different races. betchyou northern european babies would look at blondes longer, though of course, their mom is more likely to be blonde....

Posted by: razib at March 20, 2003 05:27 PM


one more thing-there was this hot chik that worked at a bakery in eugene when i was in college (about 100,000 ppl in the town). i was a party, and i was talking about how there was this hot blonde chick at a bakery-and half the guys looked at me, and were you like, "you mean at the bakery at Oasis?" (the store in which it was located). i just needed to say hot-chick & bakery, and everyone knew....

the power of beauty.

Posted by: razib at March 20, 2003 05:38 PM


That makes 40% Eurasians among the top 5, an overrepresentation of about 50x relative to population =)

Well, how many Eurasians were there among the contestants? I think it might be the case that Eurasians are overrepresented among people who go to beauty pageants in Hong Kong

Posted by: Dienekes at March 20, 2003 06:56 PM


I'd quote the same reasons for not dating brown women..not being religious turns a lot of them away from me and I have a thing for tall women 5'6"+ which most south asian women are not..having said that a midwestern conservative town like cincinnati does not make things easy..not sure how Imbler treats its unwashed masses though ???

Posted by: Pawan at March 20, 2003 06:57 PM


oregon has an active white supremacist movement-but it is also very accepting of non-whites because there are so few. just my experience. the people here are tall-taller than the whites in say boston or new orleans, as few are ethnic, and a lot of germans & scandinavians, fewer irish, french or southern europeans.

Posted by: razib at March 20, 2003 10:00 PM


i have a few points to make:

1) i am swedish-vietnamese
2) i adore kristin kreuk!
3) i hope i look like her some day
4) people say me and her have the same nose
5) i love simon rex too!

Posted by: Monkey at May 2, 2003 10:34 AM


Come and have a look at the site, LOTS of pics of Maggie Q, plus the OFFICIAL internet fan club..

http://www.maggie-q.net/maggieq.html

Posted by: Cynthia at June 20, 2003 12:24 PM


Eric you're so god damn rite. Even Cerina Da Graca was my fav. out of them all. I don't know why the judges picked the 1st place winner. TOo me she isn't all that pretty compared to the rest of the finalist. I wish Cerina had won.

Posted by: Anna at July 23, 2003 05:58 PM


Dang! I almost could've gotton Cerina's e-mail from here: http://www15.brinkster.com/axo/collegians.htm

Posted by: Anna at July 23, 2003 06:10 PM


>"That makes 40% Eurasians among the top 5, an
> overrepresentation of about 50x relative to population
> =)
>
> Well, how many Eurasians were there among the
> contestants? I think it might be the case that
> Eurasians are overrepresented among people who
> go to beauty pageants in Hong Kong"

actually, victoria, amanda & cerina were the only 3 mixed contestants in miss hk 2002. .. and the 3 best looking, in that order! :)

Posted by: tell it like it is. .. at September 18, 2003 02:45 PM