Comments on: Religion in public life

By: michael vassar

michael vassar — Wed, 27 Jul 2005 13:41:36 +0000

There's a great Kipling poem on the subject.

Whether the State can loose and bind
In Heaven as well as on Earth:
If it be wiser to kill mankind
Before or after the birth--
These are matters of high concern
Where State-kept schoolmen are;
But Holy State (we have lived to learn)
Endeth in Holy War.

Whether The People be led by The Lord,
Or lured by the loudest throat:
If it be quicker to die by the sword
Or cheaper to die by vote--
These are things we have dealt with once,
(And they will not rise from their grave)
For Holy People, however it runs,
Endeth in wholly Slave.

Whatsoever, for any cause,
Seeketh to take or give
Power above or beyond the Laws,
Suffer it not to live!
Holy State or Holy King--
Or Holy People's Will--
Have no truck with the senseless thing.
Order the guns and kill!
Saying --after--me:--

Once there was The People--Terror gave it birth;
Once there was The People and it made a Hell of Earth
Earth arose and crushed it. Listen, 0 ye slain!
Once there was The People--it shall never be again!

By: lkjlkj

lkjlkj — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:49:32 +0000

Of course there is a difference--numbers

There is also another difference.

By: Diana

Diana — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:02:06 +0000

Razib,

There is an ugly situation in Orange County, NY between the locals (of all religions) and the Satmar community, which is an ultra-O Hasidic sect. The latter have lost a slew of cases in the Supreme Court relating to public education. Yet none of the Supreme Court decisions have been upheld because the Satmars just go to the NY State Legislature, which conveniently passes legislation favoring the Satmars.

BTW this goes to show that the Supreme Court does NOT rule by judicial fiat. A great case of checks and balances but in this case, an example of corruption of democratic rule of law by an organized group.

If this were Muslims, people would be saying that this is the end of civilization.

Of course there is a difference--numbers. But the situation is galling for those of us who believe in at least pretending there's a wall between religion and state.

By: vic

vic — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:19:43 +0000

in addition one could even say that a logical extension of the core beliefs of ANY and all religions could well be a directive to kill or othererwise vanquish or convert – adherents of the OTHER faith.

So yes- religious freedom is an absurdity/an oxymoron perhaps.

By: vic

vic — Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:16:16 +0000

what is all the fuss about

1. religion - no matter what the denomination is, and always has been a logical absurdity.

2. all religions-barring none- always have the last word in terms of what is the one true path. enforcement is a matter of local color but the reality of " this" being gods word is essentially inviolate.

ergo:

WRT religion any attempt to give a logic to; rationalize; pluralize (i think I just made a new word); legalize conflicting strands ( for secular law is ultimately about an excersize in sequential logic as well) or whatever secular logical institutional etc framework you want to put it within.

-will be bound to be inconsistent and impossible.

So why bother trying to give a logical frame of reference. Let irt be the way it has always been. a bundle of conflicting information that always requires a slight trickery and deviousness to reconcile.