Comments on: Even a caveman could eat it

By: Joseph Dunphy

Joseph Dunphy — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:24:11 +0000

“That is your browser pulling the info from your cache.”

Worth knowing, but very much not the norm. Most sites do not work that way.

By: Joseph Dunphy

Joseph Dunphy — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:22:13 +0000

“I remember seeing an argument before that wheat and dairy became part of our diets even though they aren’t healthy but because they have drug-like addictive effects”

How many drug addicts do you know of who seem to function very well in the long run? This is a very remarkable claim, offered without citation.

By: TangoMan

TangoMan — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:25:50 +0000

I resubmitted my post with my e-mail address removed, and your system reinserted it for me!

That is your browser pulling the info from your cache.

By: Joseph Dunphy

Joseph Dunphy — Sun, 07 Oct 2007 22:26:12 +0000

OK, guys, what the ... (expletitive deleted)? I resubmitted my post with my e-mail address removed, and your system reinserted it for me! First of all, as most sites require an e-mail address be included for a post to be accepted, it is not reasonable for you as a site owner to expect us to anticipate that the addresses we submit will appear on site, especially since the practice of making those visible after submission is practically unheard of, now that everybody knows that spambots harvest mail links.

I responded to a post far up the page, saw no mail links and got blindsided. Guys, this is not cool. Please remove all but the last copy of my post, and if my real address is going to appear on this one, then please remove this one too.

Harry writes:

"Over 10,000 years ago, everyone in the world lived the hunter-gatherer lifestyle - even the people of the eastern Mediterranean - so it is likely that most humans would do well on such a Paleolithic diet."

Doing a quick search under "Jericho" "10500" and "site:.edu", among other results I pull up

http://www.wsu.edu/~tako/Week9.html

and this quote

". Archaic Neolithic in the Levant (10,500-8000 BP)
A. Neolithic I: 10500-9600 BP (PPNA)
1. Villages become larger & are located in areas
with high ag. potential. Deteriorating climate.
2. Structures still mostly circular or oval, often
slightly dug into ground, 4-6 m in diameter,
usually 1 room. Similar in size & artifact
content.
3. Jericho largest site of day at > 4 ha;
surrounded by a stone wall fronted by a ditch
& backed by a tower 8-m high.
4. Typical burial location under house floor or
near house in yard; late in period at Jericho,
some heads buried separately.
5. Peas, lentils, emmer, and probably barley
domesticated by 9800 BP"

so apparently not everybody was following a hunter-gatherer lifestyle 10000 years ago, as we're looking at mention of the remains of an agricultural settlement from 2500 years prior, more time than seperates our era from that of the Caesars.

Be careful about the assumption that the dawn of recorded history is the same as the dawn of civilization (c.4750 BC). The only thing that former represents is the earliest era from which surviving records can be found. If a book crumbles to dust, do the events it recorded cease to be events which occured?

By: TGGP

TGGP — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 01:32:17 +0000

I remember seeing an argument before that wheat and dairy became part of our diets even though they aren’t healthy but because they have drug-like addictive effects that cause complacency and allow people to function in settled, civilized societies rather than the nomadic hunter gatherer ones we are optimized for. I’m pretty sure I linked to it here, but I don’t remember where it is now.

By: razib

razib — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 13:00:07 +0000

Over 10,000 years ago, everyone in the world lived the hunter-gatherer lifestyle - even the people of the eastern Mediterranean - so it is likely that most humans would do well on such a Paleolithic diet.

well, this is false. agriculture is around in the fertile crescent around 11,500 years ago. egypt 9,000 years ago. in any case, evolution can happen fast. the metabolization of alcohol or the breakdown of lactose are two capacities which have changed greatly in various populations over the last 5,000 years.

And yet the research shows that the Swedes do better without dairy.

today. selective pressures change. also, you should cite the research. we don't know who the hell you are.

By: Harry

Harry — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:42:58 +0000

Consider that agriculture became normative in Sweden about 5,000 years ago, 5,000 years after it was the dominant mode of production in the eastern Mediterranean

Over 10,000 years ago, everyone in the world lived the hunter-gatherer lifestyle - even the people of the eastern Mediterranean - so it is likely that most humans would do well on such a Paleolithic diet.

Modern-day hunter-gatherers exploit wild starch sources

But that may be because they don't have alternative food sources.

Note that Sweden is also the epicenter lactose tolerance (thought that seems to have become the norm after agriculture arrived on the scene), suggesting a priori expectation of localized adaptations

And yet the research shows that the Swedes do better without dairy.

By: bbartlog

bbartlog — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:16:41 +0000

The point about human variation being an underappreciated and critical factor in evaluating the healthfulness of a diet is a good one. Lactose (in)tolerance is just the poster child, there are surely hundreds of other similar adaptations that have thus far flown under the radar. Gluten intolerance is another big one that doesn’t get quite as much attention – clearly the sweep for the ability to digest wheat was not complete.

By: isamu

isamu — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:52:04 +0000

Nevermind the fact that we really don’t know what the typical “paleolithic” diet was. Modern-day hunter-gatherers exploit wild starch sources and there is no reason why paleolithic ones couldn’t.

By: Henri

Henri — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 18:45:19 +0000

I hear the roast duck with the mango salsa is good that way. :)