Finns encouraging hittin’ it?

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Finnish Parliament debates proposal for “love vacations”:

A proposal by MP Tommy Tabermann (SDP) to grant all employees a paid 7-day “love vacation” once a year led to an exceptionally colourful debate in Parliament on Thursday evening.

According to Tabermann, the purpose of such vacations would be to prevent relations from disintegrating and the spouses from drifting apart.

During the seven days, couples could devote themselves to each other “both at an erotic and emotional level” and “find their way back to the path of love in order to find the wellspring of love again“.

Some MPs suspected that the proposal might discriminate against single persons, but others said that a love vacation would be the privilege of all, even the singles and the single parents.

Tommy Tabermann is a poet, but I don’t think he’s working on a follow up to the Kalevala.

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23 Comments

  1. They know what they did.

  2. This is a percolation of a pattern at the individual level up to a group-level pattern. Namely, those devoid of passion struggle to inject it back into their lives using far-out, last-ditch methods. 
     
    Ever see those KY “warming lubricant” commercials? It’s always of a 35 – 40 y.o. guy reading the sports pages or a history book, ignoring his so-so looking wife — until she busts out some KY, and his eyebrows perk up. The same is true of S&M, leather type stuff — only middle-aged people are really into it. Young people are naturally brimming over with hormones, so they don’t need this weird stuff to light their fire. That’s one group-level diff. 
     
    Now we see another group-level diff at the ethnic level. Finns promoting love vacations, Germans and Japanese consuming lots of sick fetish porn, while nary a Black man will be found participating in any of this silliness.

  3. Guys, Tabermann is a Finland-Swede. His market niche is to be a stereotypical Swede. That’s what the whole business is, again, about: he’s again promoting himself as the metro poet guy who talks and romances, as opposed to all the traditional Finnish men who want to fuck talking and just fuck. Guys like him are the reason why Finns consider Swedes gay. 
     
    agnostic, locally 95 % of black men who date local women are chubby chasers. (Or not, actually, that’s just the end result of the sexual market place. But that’s what it looks like on the street.)

  4. jaakeli, yeah, i assumed that from the name. most def. takes a swede to tell a finn how to love, right?

  5. How to love, sure. How to score, no. 
     
    BTW is agnostic ever going to explain his weird man-crush on black guys?

  6. Some MPs also noted that common vacation is the most dangerous time for a relationship. So there should be empirical evidence that the effects of this vacation would positive.

  7. Hmmm, can’t explain what doesn’t exist. Maybe you’re thinking of someone else.

  8. “Prior to his candidacy and election, he was one of the captains on Uutisvuoto, the weekly Finnish version of the popular news panel show “Have I Got News For You”" 
     
    If I remember correctly, it is not only a “Finnish version”… The program FORMAT itself is Finnish… :)

  9. I just read the comments about Finnish rednecks. 
     
    I think you have to count the ‘scale’, not only say there are rednecks outside bigger ‘cities’. Finnish population has been concentrating to big centres for a long time now: over one fift of the population already live in the capital Helsinki area and almost 40 % if you count the real effect area of Helsinki. 
     
    So: there are THAT many rednecks because not too many people live in the countryside. 
     
    I have been living in German speaking countries and can say: Finnish people are NOT rednecks. It depends what you look at: if you think about culinary habits and consumtion of wine, then Finns are definately rednecks. If you, on the other hand ask general knowledge what people know about stuff in the world, history, etc, I think Finns will be quite high in that.

  10. iemaatta: 
     
    If you drink hard liquor and beer but never drink wine, you just might be a redneck! And that’s a dierct quote from Fox Jeffworthy.

  11. I should also point out that, in pursuit of fame and fortune, Fox Jeffworthy hopelessly muddles important distinctions between rubes, hicks,yahoos, hillbillies, and rednecks. The broadest group is “hick,” which is NYC-ese for anyone who lives outside NYC (though, 50 years ago, New Yorkers called all such “farmers” until learning that there were towns–and cities, too–and so had to add “hick” to their provincial vocabulary.

  12. Sorry for my poor spelling again; 
     
    “So: there are THAT many rednecks because not too many people live in the countryside.” 
     
    I was meaning “there are not that many rednecks”. 
     
    Of course what and how you drink is one good definition, but at least most Finnish “rednecks” can place even many African countries on the world map, whereas many supposedly ‘cultured’ wine-drinking French cannot even place Finland on the European map… :) I mean there are even people in France who don’t know Finland is in Europe. 
     
    For instance many/most of my friends in Helsinki (if you don’t count the ones which have moved in from somewhere else) don’t have a driver’s licence and have never touched a gun (if you don’t count military service). Is this geek or redneck…?

  13. iemaatta, knowledge has nothing to do with not being a redneck. It’s the appearance of knowledge. Ask those snotty Frenchmen about world politics and they’ll tell you how much better everything would be if the French were running the show instead of the American rednecks. Ask them to list the stupidities that Americans have gotten themselves into and they’ll start with Vietnam without batting an eyelid. It’s all about creating the appearance of sophistication. 
     
    And that’s urban culture. In a village culture, it matters what you actually know and can do, since everyone knows everyone and it’s hard to create mere appearances when people actually know each other and a fake is easily spotted. In urban cultures, people interact on a much vaguer basis and it becomes more important to have the skills to create an appearance of sophistication based on a few signals. And it’s quite obvious that Finland is far “behind” in this “development”. 
     
    So, yes: it’s all about drinking wine and being able to hide the fact that you don’t know the world any better than the rednecks do. Believing that your actual level of knowledge matters is a mark of a rube. In fact, explaining how much you actually know drastically lowers your status, because you’re appearing to be qualifying yourself (or, in this case, Finns). People who qualify themselves are tacitly admitting that they need someone’s approval ie. that they recognize a superior. This is true even if the “superior” is only superior in his skill to artificially inflate his status.

  14. jaakkeli, your writing was interesting and probably partially true. 
     
    However, I guess I have a slightly different definition of what constitutes as a redneck. I think many Finns are proud they are not trying to appear ‘cultural’ but still don’t want to appear ‘dumb’. You cannot compare them to religious rednecks of Bible Belt in the US. 
     
    Does anyone know if there are any travel statistics: I have an impression that Finns travel a lot and almost everywhere you go (except Dagestan) there has always been someone from Finland. You cannot say the same from traditionally ‘redneck’ places (compare with travelling people from South Dakota, for instance). Even my parents’ generation did a lot of interrailing etc. in the 70s so it is not completely new phenomenon either. 
     
    One measurement which might be ‘anti-redneck’-behaviour is sailing/yachting. In the 90s Finland was second (New Zeeland was first) in yachts/capita. Most of them are used in the nearby waters, but always some percentage will go to longer cruises. You will see as many Finnish boats (just roughly) in the Atlantic Ocean as boats from some much bigger European country, say Italy.

  15. Yachting is an elite signal within a cultural context where it’s an obscure activity that takes a lot of money and wastes a lot of time. Finland has extremely favourable geography for small ships and thus a long tradition of boat ownership, so it’s more of an ordinary hobby and not a good signal. You can differentiate yourself from desert rednecks by owning a boat, but it’s not going to help you with Finnish or New Zealand rednecks. 
     
    Traveling is a very illuminating subject. Among students, for example, mentioning a trip to Ibiza means that you’re sinking time and significant (to a student) money to simply get to a party ie. you’re signaling your coolness. Mentioning your trip to Tibet, a place supremely well-known for being a barren, ridiculously remote place without nightclubs, is a super signal for the “I don’t own a TV” crowd. You don’t want to advertise going to the Canary Isles. Everybody likes relaxing in the sun (well, I don’t, but…) and it’s not so special with cheap flights, so by believing it’s worth special mention you’re marking yourself an untraveled rube. And so on. 
     
    If you’re Finnish, mentioning your trips to Sweden and Estonia does absolutely nothing, since everyone has visited Sweden and Estonia and it’s a trivial trip. It’s not a signal of anything in a Finnish context. (Not having visited either country would be an embarassment, of course.) So no, we do not score above South Dakota because of that. 
     
    Besides, you’re still qualifying, trying to argue that Finns really are cool. A logical argument is the worst thing you could possibly do to your cool.

  16. “Besides, you’re still qualifying, trying to argue that Finns really are cool.” 
     
    Well, I don’t know what the options are here. Geek vs. redneck or ‘cool’ vs. redneck or ‘cultural’ vs. redneck. 
     
    I am not arguing what Finns are, but what they aren’t. If you call them traditional rednecks, it will be missleading. 
     
    “You can differentiate yourself from desert rednecks by owning a boat, but it’s not going to help you with Finnish or New Zealand rednecks.” 
     
    And this is exactly what I was doing. When you use the word ‘redneck’ people don’t think about yachties. So: the word may not be the best to describe Finns. 
     
    “So no, we do not score above South Dakota because of that.” 
     
    I am not talking about Estonia and Sweden. What I am saying that Finnish population in general tend to travel +1000 km trips more often than say, South Dakotans. (I have no stats to back this, of course.) There are a lot of young Finns who travel to Tibet, to Burma, to Papua or Bolivia. Maybe I am not representative, but most of my friends have been all around the world, including the Americas, East Asia, Africa, Siberia, Australia etc. If I ask from my friend who has same age collage educated friends in South Dakota about their travelling, he will probably answer that some of them have been to New York. None of them have been to Europe, for instance.

  17. iamaatta: I am not talking about Estonia and Sweden. What I am saying that Finnish population in general tend to travel +1000 km trips more often than say, South Dakotans. (I have no stats to back this, of course.) 
     
    1000km is roughly 621 miles. Here’s where that’ll get you from the middle of South Dakota (this is using Google Maps, so it’s a very rough guide): 
    Minneapolis, Minnesota (517mi); Omaha, Nebraska (424mi); Denver, Colorado (549mi); Kansas City, Missori (609mi). 
     
    Here’s what 2000km (1242mi) will get you: 
    Chicago, Illinois (846mi); Detroit, Michigan (1100mi); Nashville, Tennessee (1162mi); Memphis, Tennessee (1132mi); Dallas, Texas (1058mi); Austin, Texas (1247mi); Cincinnati, Ohio (1120mi); Columbus, Ohio (1175mi); Cleveland, Ohio (1156mi); Salt Lake City, Utah (929mi). 
     
    Americans have their problems especially when it comes to being cultured, but the US is fucking big. You can get from Helsinki to Stockholm and cover less distance it took my family to drive to the mountains of our state (although this is unusual since North Carolina is a particularly wide state). I do suspect you are underestimating how much families travel in the US, but it probably is less than your claims about the average Finns.

  18. Levi: I know US is very big. 
     
    On the other hand the distances for basic trips from Finland are not that small either. Using google maps (it is actually estimating the distance much too long because it’s using land routes). 
     
    Basic city trips: 
     
    Helsinki-Barcelona: 3267 km 
    Helsinki-Paris: 2358 km 
    Helsinki-Rome: 3031 km 
    Helsinki-London: 2373 km 
     
    These are some basic destinations for city tourism and Inter-Railing which almost everyone visits sooner or later. Eastern Europe and Berlin are quite hip now as well. 
     
    Note that beach trips to Greece, Turkey and especially Canary Islands are a bit longer. 
     
    Inside Finland: 
    Helsinki-Ivalo (destination in Lapland) 1117 km. 
     
    I typed in 
    South Dakota-New York: 2,524 km 
    South Dakota-Miami: 3,280 km 
    South Dakota-Los Angeles: 2,459 km 
     
    So actually not that different.

  19. Finns hitting it: 
     
    http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/03/14/finnish-minister-catches-spitzer-fever/ 
     
    Just compare the nonsense in America to how civilized countries deal with “sex scandals”. 
     
    Immu, don’t you think it’s a little silly how you’ve internalized the American coastal cultural elite’s idea of stereotypical rednecks? I assume you’ve never visited South Dakota and never plan to. If you did, you’d probably find some perfectly nice people who are not bizarrely obsessed with guns, who do have all their teeth intact and who do not constantly drink moonshine. You might find some occasional rare individual who does fit the stereotype and then you’d likely realize that they’re not really the illiterate morons the urbanites paint them to be. Some are stupid, since some of any group are stupid. (I even met a stupid Jew once.) 
     
    I’m from rural Finland and I’ve known plenty of people who’d fit the ideal definition of redneck, except for the stupidity, again. The types who STILL hoard weapons for a small army and make detailed plans on who they can trust to join the militia when the socialists attempt to take over the country (again). Moonshine cookers. Really religious people. And even a few people who traveled to Sweden once and concluded that the Swedes are indeed obviously all stupid and gay.

  20. “Immu, don’t you think it’s a little silly how you’ve internalized the American coastal cultural elite’s idea of stereotypical rednecks? I assume you’ve never visited South Dakota and never plan to.” 
     
    Well, we are discussing in a forum of coastal cultural elite (+some others). :) If we use the word ‘redneck’ it should refer to the intuition people have about the word… 
     
    I have never been to South Dakota; it is not impossible that I will visit there if I would make a road trip in the future around that area. Most likely I would not fly just there as a tourist… I have some rough intuition about the state, though, because my very good friend spent an exchange year during high-scool. Since then he has been visiting his friends and ‘family’ there. 
     
    I am not saying being a religious conservative is a bad thing; I know the people my friend stayed with were really warm and nice people. But still, in many respects, the stereotypes were fitting quite well… My friend’s best friend there, for instance, married at the age of 19 or 20 with his first girlfriend. (And yes, we have that in Finland, but it is not very common at least…) 
     
    I bet these stereotype examples of rednecks you gave (from Finland) where not your close friends…? 
     
    I don’t really understand this SMS ‘scandal’ at all, they where all adults, nothing illegal happened, he is not even married.

  21. I bet these stereotype examples of rednecks you gave (from Finland) where not your close friends…? 
     
    Some of them are relatives. (My family is pretty strange though, full farmers with university degrees married to artists and stuff like that. But they give perfect examples of how the stereotype of redneck is wrong on only the “stupid” or “untraveled” part – you can spend years in distant countries on UN missions and study liberal arts at the university and still have no problem going back to the village living the gun-toting redneck life.) 
     
    Much of the “stupidity” of rednecks is in fact the stupidity of urban elites. For example, some people I know shoot endangered animals on sight. You have to, because if some flying squirrel gets spotted on your lands, you can’t do anything profitable with the land anymore. So you shoot endangered animals before some hippie do-gooder gets the chance to spot them, because it’s the rational thing to do. There’s nothing stupid in the redneck ways. Hell, they even have a real community there: they sometimes selflessly shoot endangered animals as a favour to others. 
     
    (You just have to shout “It’s coming straight for us!” before you pull the trigger.) 
     
    I much prefer rednecks for company rather than clueless urban liberals, except, perhaps, for the religiousity part (but a faithful Marxist/environmentalist/multiculturalist/whatever is just as annoying as any fundie, really). But then, in my observations, redneckiness is actually inversely correlated with religiousity. The church-goers don’t like moonshine or guns. The stupid liberals just don’t get it, because all they know is that the religious people and the rednecks both live somewhere out there, so they must be the same.

  22. “Much of the “stupidity” of rednecks is in fact the stupidity of urban elites.” 
     
    Well, I don’t know if you are using some strange sarcasm here but I think the people that are chasing, trapping or shooting endangered animals are idiots.

  23. Well, I don’t know if you are using some strange sarcasm here but I think the people that are chasing, trapping or shooting endangered animals are idiots. 
     
    That’s because you’re not the one threatened with losing your income and because to you a flying squirrel is some delightfully exotic beast you’ve probably never seen. Not that people are happy to do it. In fact, they’re angry at the goddamn urban idiots who think that the best way to “protect” species is to punish people for having the species on their lands. It’s not stupid, it’s perfectly rational. If you punish people for not killing endangered species, they’ll do it, even if you call your let’s-punish-people-for-not-killing-endangered-species program a kind of “protection”. 
     
    Even illiterate tribes can figure it out. I once talked to an African guy who claimed that they had killed off most of the elephants in their country by “protecting” them. I think it was Kenya. Hmm, I can well imagine some cousin of Barack Obama sitting there in some trendy cafe in Nairobi, complaining about all the evil spear-toting rednecks for doing exactly what’s most beneficial to them and hearing his well-educated friends offer spear control instead of not giving people incentives to kill elephants as the “smart”, enlightened solution. 
     
    Note that urban liberals are just as happy to oppose what they preach for when it hits them – see eg. the NIMBYism on wind farms. Everybody agrees that protecting the environment is essential and everybody opposes any form of environmentalism that would lower their own property values.

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