A map showing where the Iberian language was spoken: 
 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/Iberos.png/250px-Iberos.png 
 
More on Iberian: 
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_language 
 
Note that Iberian writings have been found as far north as Béziers, in Southern France. 
 
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idioma_%C3%ADbero

Razib: 
"I assume the reference to "Iberians" implies the peoples of the southern half of the peninsula, who in pre-Roman times spoke their own languages unrelated to Celtiberian and possibly distant from the Basque dialects. The people of Tartessos are the most prominent representatives of this cultural complex." 
My understanding is that "Iberians", as used in the source article, does not refer to the pre-Indoeuropean, pre-roman populations of Iberia in general, but to the specific group known as Iberians. 
The Iberians proper inhabited most of the Eastern part of the peninsula, including modern day Catalonia. 
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibero

Razib: " With 400 years of admixture the relationship between proportion of ancestry and phenotype can be muddled "

Interesting! I suppose you mean that the actual proportion of amerindian blood in hispanic countries is greater than what the phenotypes reflect. You must be right there, since the Spaniards were heavily outnumbered by the indigenous populations. You would have expected the Spaniards to leave an insignificant legacy in genetic terms.

Razib: " But because I'm an apostate, an atheist, "

Well, being an apostate is even worse than being a lesbian under islamic law. ;-) If I am not mistaken, the punishment for apostasy is death!
I suppose you know the risks you´re taking, Razib, and I respect you for that.

Razib: " quibbling-but i have met bosniaks that are blonde. curious from german readers-do all turks look non-white??? at my mosque there were some turkish families, and i'd always get into fights with this red-headed turkish kid (his brothers were all red-heads)). "

I am not german, but I know the country, and my perception is that the Germans dislike Turks because of their culture and religion, not on racial grounds. Spaniards, Italians and Greeks are well integrated in Germany, unlike Yougoslavs and Romanians. Most Turks are light -complexioned and could pass unnoticed in any european country where Alpine/ Mediterranean types predominate.

Razib: " (...) speaking from the perspective of one who has a keen eye for the Germanic physique"

"Germanic" ( I suppose you meant "Nordic") types are even rarer in the USA than in The UK. You need to take a tour in Europe (Netherlands, Northern Germany and around the Baltic, both shores) to become a qualified expert! ;-)

Of course, the North European strain in GB comes primarily from the Germanic and Danish Invasions. The core gene pool would appear to be central european, and thus "alpine". One thing that struck me in England was that people were both shorter and darker as you went north! Same thing as you travel from the East to the West. The Welsh look distinctly "alpine". I suppose Britain (at least south of the Adrian Wall, was inhabited by similar populations until the Germanic Invasions, and they remained the main component in the British gene pool to this day.

Razib: " you should stick to talking about spain my friend ;) watch too much american T.V. and you forget that most americans are still northern european in heritage.... "

I knew there was a sizable scandinavian population in the Mid-West, but I didn´t know about the ethnic make-up of Imbler. ;-)
Still, many Euro-americans have mixed european ancestry from many parts of Europe, and many claim native-american (Indian) ancestry as well.
My point is you need to make a field-trip in Nordic Lands. (I warn you, the food is horrible, and so is the weather. The locals are boring!)

By the way, I don´t have a TV set! ;-)

Bob wrote the following in the thread: " Label me dubious at IQ test results that place more than half of a few countries' population as mentally retarded (

Meaning:

Congo -- 73

Zimbabwe -- 66

Sierra Leone -- 64

Liberia -- 64

Godless, I read what you wrote in the thread, but still I´d like you to comment those figures.
I am willing to accept those figures, although I believe we should reconsider who we label as "retarded".

Zizka: "As always, I'm the devil's advocate here"

I agree with your views: surely, environment is partly to blame for intelectual under-development.
Even in Europe, you get a sharp difference between urban and rural populations, IQ-wise.

I read both articles and I don´t see how a course like that can be taught seriously at a university!
Really ridiculous!

By the way, has anybody read Steve Sailer´s latest piece? He echoes a theory by Gregory M. Cochran that the cause of homosexuality might be in fact a virus (coupled with genetic predisposition).

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/gay_gene.htm

GC: " There's nothing wrong with crediting the tremendous contributions of Europe to humanity, but I draw the line at a theory of superiority that ignores data before 1500 AD and/or skips over the dark ages. "

Indeed, to "ignore the data" before 1500 AD is pure ignorance, because around 900 AD the Dark Ages were through and Europe was well on the way to a new flourishment. To discard all of the Medieval Ages as barbarism is a cliché which originated during the Enlightenment to further the State/Church split. Around 1200 AD, Europe was on par with Islam and China, and well ahead by 1400 Ad. To make it less ambiguous, let me rephrase it: by the XIII th century AD, economic and scientific development in Europe were equal to the Muslim and Han world; by the late XIV, and early XV th century AD, ahead of both and of any other civilisation.

Razib, Vicente Fox is not typical of the mexican upper class, which is mildly mixed with indian blood, because his grandfather was an Irish-american, and his mother is the daughter of spanish inmigrants from Santander, in the North of Spain.

M. Vassar; "England, Germany, France, and Scandanavia may have been developing cultural values that have served them well, but they had NO institutional capital, their art sucked, and they couldn't make large amounts of high quality stuff. Ever hear of Damascus swords and how outmatched the Crusaders were? "

I had Spain,Portugal, Byzanthium and the italian city-states in mind. They were well organised polities with modern military power, economic surplus and high cultural and scientific achievements.
Damascus steel was no match for toledan swords: by 1212 (Navas de Tolosa, Spain), the muslims lost their hold of the Iberian Peninsula, except for Grenada, which was no more than a castillian protectorate until it was seized by the arms of Isabella of Castille in 1492.

Razib: "the chinese state reached its apogee sometime in the 18th century under the manchus. it was during this time that they dictated terms to the russian empire and expanded into the amur river valley "

Remember that the Russian Empire was the most backward in Europe at the time. I doubt the Chinese would have dictated terms to France or England, had they had to face them at that period. By the early XIX Th century, China was at the mercy of the european powers.

Razib: "after all, you gave 1400 as the point of european dominance, but this did not prevent the ottomans from laying seige to vienna over 100 years later "

The Ottoman Empire only lasted for longer because of its aliance with ...-guess who?- FRANCE!
When the Ottomans began to threaten western Christianity (of course, the Pope and the catholic powers looked the other way when Byzanthium fell in 1453!), France was nowhere to be seen in the battle of Lepanto (1471).

http://www.nafpaktos.com/battle_of_lepanto.htm

The French and the Turks were allies well into the XIX th Century.
Divide and conquer! That about explains french politics.

Me:"France was nowhere to be seen in the battle of Lepanto (1471)."

Correction! 1571.

Razib: "there was a shift between 1700 & 1800 when european military advantages shifted from parity to dominance. "

You are right there: It was partly demographics
(booming in France, Britain and Germany) and greater firepower.
Its a quantitive leap, not a qualitative one: all the factors for european dominance were there well before the XIX th century.

Interesting stuff... Is there any contemporary study similar to Roe's 1952 study of the most eminent US-born scientist ?

I agree with Mr. Gekko, it would be far more interesting to have the actual elite (businessmen, attorneys, physicians, scientists, artists...) tested for their I.Q., rather than college students! I wonder if there is such a strong correlation between high I.Q. and professional achievement, like it was questioned in a previous thread...

I wonder if Jared Taylor became a White Nationalist in Japan? I mean, the Japanese are probably more racist than the Germans ever were! Perhaps being brought up in a homogenous and xenophobic society like Japan awoke his racial sensibility?

Jared Taylor is by far the brightest and most articulate White Nationalist this side of Alain De Benoist. He is very clever in bringing the Jews to his cause. If the Jews jump off the "multiculti" wagon, maybe the PC cult can fade away and we can start discussing anew race, western culture, inmigration policies and related issues.

Zack: "And lastly, to all those who think Muslims should not be allowed to immigrate, do you think I should be deported?"

Well, if your adoptive country ever has to fight a war against Islam, and since you said:

"I am a Muslim and if the war is against ALL Muslims, I am forced to be the enemy without any decision on my part"

it seems you just answered your question.

Zack: " I won't think of myself as an enemy of the US, but I would be careful for my life and liberty. Because for me, my life and liberty are more important than Americans', Muslims', Pakistanis' or any other group to which I belong or not belong "

The fact is, whether you like or not, you´d be an enemy of your elected country: first, as a Muslim, despite yourself, you´d have to take sides and your loyalty, as you made clear, lies foremost with your religion; and then secondly, by definition, you´d be an enemy in the eyes of your fellow MAJORITY non-muslims citizens.
It must be a painful situation to be in, I have to say! :(

Zack: " My loyalty first and foremost lies with myself. Yes, I am a selfish bastard. "

I suppose that applies to all humans. First you´re an individual, of course, but then there has to be a patriotic or religious allegiance that comes first to your mind.

If you were granted US citizenship and there was a war between the USA and Islam, which side would you choose?
If it´s too personal a question, then what do you think the average US muslim would do?