Posts with Comments by kennteoh
Short memories
Perceptions of the past are defined by contemporary circumstances. Although the depradations of the European Crusaders pale in comparison to the cataclysm of Mongol invasion, the Mongols at present pose no threat to the Middle East or the Arab or Muslim world. Following their continent-spanning conquests, they (and the Turks) assimilated into the cultures of the nations they subdued - thus they posed no existential threat to the Muslim world following initial impact.
A Turkish analogy for Indo-Europeans?
Interesting post.
I'd be curious to know if anyone here has any theories as to how the Altaic tribes made the transition to pastoral nomadism. My understanding is that Indo-Europeans are the most likely pioneers of pastoral nomadism, and that it was this particular mode of life that enabled them to achieve such rapid linguistic diffusion during early human history.
How is it that the Turks and other Altaic tribes subsequently acquired and mastered what other tribes pioneered? I can't imagine that the early IE tribes would have transmitted such skills to them out of good-will or largess - their tremendous spread across the Eurasian continent indicates that they were undoubtedly a rapacious, martial peoples. And pastoral nomadism does not strike me as being a style of life that lends itself to rapid adoption.
I recall reading somewhere in the work of a French Turkologist that the Altaic tribes perhaps adopted a form of pastoralism on the Siberian taiga using reindeer, since in certain early Turkish graves, you find fake antlers attached to the horses - perhaps an expression of nostalgia for a bygone era.
History also yields to us the extraordinary fact that the Turks are the only non-Indo European people in history to have inflicted wholesale genocides upon Indo-European nations (I am not referring to the Armenians, who at present possess a nation-state, but to the Indo-Iranian civilizations of Central Asia that imparted Buddhism to China, as well as the Byzantine Civilization of Anatolia.)
I'd be curious to know if anyone here has any theories as to how the Altaic tribes made the transition to pastoral nomadism. My understanding is that Indo-Europeans are the most likely pioneers of pastoral nomadism, and that it was this particular mode of life that enabled them to achieve such rapid linguistic diffusion during early human history.
How is it that the Turks and other Altaic tribes subsequently acquired and mastered what other tribes pioneered? I can't imagine that the early IE tribes would have transmitted such skills to them out of good-will or largess - their tremendous spread across the Eurasian continent indicates that they were undoubtedly a rapacious, martial peoples. And pastoral nomadism does not strike me as being a style of life that lends itself to rapid adoption.
I recall reading somewhere in the work of a French Turkologist that the Altaic tribes perhaps adopted a form of pastoralism on the Siberian taiga using reindeer, since in certain early Turkish graves, you find fake antlers attached to the horses - perhaps an expression of nostalgia for a bygone era.
History also yields to us the extraordinary fact that the Turks are the only non-Indo European people in history to have inflicted wholesale genocides upon Indo-European nations (I am not referring to the Armenians, who at present possess a nation-state, but to the Indo-Iranian civilizations of Central Asia that imparted Buddhism to China, as well as the Byzantine Civilization of Anatolia.)
Asian hostility
"As to the wick dipping, I wouldnt be surprised if the Japanese woman who looked for the wick. Its no secret that Japanese women chase white men."
According to all accounts, such women in Japan are the same as most women in Asia with a pronounced fetish for Westerners - the marginalized rejects and losers who are unwanted by high-status males in their own society.
The remarks by Jerg and Knight here are utterly typical of so many Westerners in Asia - who are apt to rashly arrive at the most egregious of misconclusions with only limited information or interaction.
According to all accounts, such women in Japan are the same as most women in Asia with a pronounced fetish for Westerners - the marginalized rejects and losers who are unwanted by high-status males in their own society.
The remarks by Jerg and Knight here are utterly typical of so many Westerners in Asia - who are apt to rashly arrive at the most egregious of misconclusions with only limited information or interaction.
Buddha-fro
"when you never hear mention of the fact that they find the skeletal remains of Indo-Aryans as far east as Gansu
details? how do they know they are indo-aryans? (literacy?)"
A Sinologist friend of mine from SOAS, and a couple of high-school level Mandarin-language textbooks(I don't have them on me now). Indo-aryan on the basis of physical type alone I guess.
They are found in pits containing the victims of human sacrifice. The textbook I read stated that they were often used for either sacrificial purposes, or enslaved.
The big mystery isn't the presence of caucasians on the eastern end of the eurasian steepe - as Emerson mentioned above, the steepe isn't that wide, and the early Indo-aryans were pastoral nomads, so transportation across flat grasslands was a breeze. The big mystery is how the Altaic tribes managed to displace the Indo-aryans from their position of dominance as the lords of Central Asia.
details? how do they know they are indo-aryans? (literacy?)"
A Sinologist friend of mine from SOAS, and a couple of high-school level Mandarin-language textbooks(I don't have them on me now). Indo-aryan on the basis of physical type alone I guess.
They are found in pits containing the victims of human sacrifice. The textbook I read stated that they were often used for either sacrificial purposes, or enslaved.
The big mystery isn't the presence of caucasians on the eastern end of the eurasian steepe - as Emerson mentioned above, the steepe isn't that wide, and the early Indo-aryans were pastoral nomads, so transportation across flat grasslands was a breeze. The big mystery is how the Altaic tribes managed to displace the Indo-aryans from their position of dominance as the lords of Central Asia.
It's funny - such a big deal is made about the phenotype of the Tarim basin mummies - about the presence of physically caucasian people within the borders of the modern Chinese nation-state, when you never hear mention of the fact that they find the skeletal remains of Indo-Aryans as far east as Gansu - much much closer to the cradle of Sinitic civilization.
Incidentally Razib, it really isn't true that within the PRC, Han chauvinism has led to any attempt to obscure or diminish the significance of the disparate ethnic groups within what now comprises Chinese territory. You find abundant mention of them in any history textbook - it's unavoidable, since so much of Chinese history consists of interaction between members of the core Yellow River culture and their neighbours.
People are still acutely aware of this, and of the ethnically heterogenous nature of early China. I meet quite a few ethnic Han who proudly claim descent from some long extinguished tribe of history, because of their surname (the "100 Surnames", which is a standard primary school textbook, provides detailed information on the origins of its eponymous content, and certain surnames were preferred by ethnic groups that decided to assimilate.)
Additionally, China still harbours a huge number of ethnic minorities. And interethnic relations generally seem to be free of serious problems (with the exceptions of conflict with the Uighurs, and occasional conflict with the Hui).
Incidentally Razib, it really isn't true that within the PRC, Han chauvinism has led to any attempt to obscure or diminish the significance of the disparate ethnic groups within what now comprises Chinese territory. You find abundant mention of them in any history textbook - it's unavoidable, since so much of Chinese history consists of interaction between members of the core Yellow River culture and their neighbours.
People are still acutely aware of this, and of the ethnically heterogenous nature of early China. I meet quite a few ethnic Han who proudly claim descent from some long extinguished tribe of history, because of their surname (the "100 Surnames", which is a standard primary school textbook, provides detailed information on the origins of its eponymous content, and certain surnames were preferred by ethnic groups that decided to assimilate.)
Additionally, China still harbours a huge number of ethnic minorities. And interethnic relations generally seem to be free of serious problems (with the exceptions of conflict with the Uighurs, and occasional conflict with the Hui).
The Great Khan’s double entry bookkeeping! (“for entertainment purposes only”)
"The Hazara language (unwritten) seems to be a mixture of Turk and other Central Asian languages. "
I believe that the Hazara speak Dari, an Iranian language, rather than any of the Altaic, Central Asian languages.
I have read that the reason they are despised by other Afghans is because of their distinctive, Eastern Asian phenotype (they are referred to scornfully by the Pashtun as "flat noses"). This is quite funny, because in all the photos that I have seen of Hazara, they look quite eurasian, with noses as distended as those of the Uighurs or Uzbeks.
I also recall seeing a group of Hazara strolling around a predominately Muslim suburb in the western suburbs of Sydney a couple of years ago. The Australian government accepted quite a few refugees from the region after the war - seems that the Howard government, not renowned for its largesse towards to Muslim immigrants, felt that the plight of the Hazara was extreme enough for them to deserve succour.
I believe that the Hazara speak Dari, an Iranian language, rather than any of the Altaic, Central Asian languages.
I have read that the reason they are despised by other Afghans is because of their distinctive, Eastern Asian phenotype (they are referred to scornfully by the Pashtun as "flat noses"). This is quite funny, because in all the photos that I have seen of Hazara, they look quite eurasian, with noses as distended as those of the Uighurs or Uzbeks.
I also recall seeing a group of Hazara strolling around a predominately Muslim suburb in the western suburbs of Sydney a couple of years ago. The Australian government accepted quite a few refugees from the region after the war - seems that the Howard government, not renowned for its largesse towards to Muslim immigrants, felt that the plight of the Hazara was extreme enough for them to deserve succour.
Because you’re ugly!
The Superficial is one of my favourite satirical websites, but the entries from the first six months of its existence were by far the best. Late last year, they started to hire other contributors, and the sensibility of the materials began to change.
The guy responsible for the site is a Californian comic artist named Karl Wang. I assume that he was resposible for most of the material during first few months of the site's existence - he plies a pretty distinctive brand of humour.
The Superficial is a part of Anti-clown Media. They have a few other websites out there - such as "The Bastardly", which is a forum for ogling Hollywood starlets. They also recently opened an outstanding movie gossip website called "I Watch Stuff". I suspect that Wang contributes most of the material for "I Watch Stuff" - the surreal, arbitrary humour is exactly the same as earlier entries for "The Superficial".
Some of the best entries on the Superficial around the time of its inception concerned Lindsay Lohan and Kirsten Dunn - the later of whom the lead writer loathes with a passion. Worth checking out in the archive if you have time to kill. Also check out the entry about the Antoniono Banderas' voiced Puss-in-boots movie.
The guy responsible for the site is a Californian comic artist named Karl Wang. I assume that he was resposible for most of the material during first few months of the site's existence - he plies a pretty distinctive brand of humour.
The Superficial is a part of Anti-clown Media. They have a few other websites out there - such as "The Bastardly", which is a forum for ogling Hollywood starlets. They also recently opened an outstanding movie gossip website called "I Watch Stuff". I suspect that Wang contributes most of the material for "I Watch Stuff" - the surreal, arbitrary humour is exactly the same as earlier entries for "The Superficial".
Some of the best entries on the Superficial around the time of its inception concerned Lindsay Lohan and Kirsten Dunn - the later of whom the lead writer loathes with a passion. Worth checking out in the archive if you have time to kill. Also check out the entry about the Antoniono Banderas' voiced Puss-in-boots movie.
The Boy Crisis in Education and Serial Monogamy
No "serves them well" is perfectly apt.
So many unbearably conceited and self-important young women fail to realise that aging is inimical to feminine beauty, and that their physical charms will decline with precipitious haste past the age of thirty.
"Feminism ruined their lifes. "
It has also completely corrupted their personalities and attitudes. Women raised in the Anglosphere - regardless of ethnic derivation - must be the most charmless and obnoxious women in the world. The most horrible thing about Feminism is that it taught women in the West that to be charismatic or charming is a liability.
So many unbearably conceited and self-important young women fail to realise that aging is inimical to feminine beauty, and that their physical charms will decline with precipitious haste past the age of thirty.
"Feminism ruined their lifes. "
It has also completely corrupted their personalities and attitudes. Women raised in the Anglosphere - regardless of ethnic derivation - must be the most charmless and obnoxious women in the world. The most horrible thing about Feminism is that it taught women in the West that to be charismatic or charming is a liability.
The humanities & the university
Yeah, but working in finance is far too time consuming.
Being a successful white-collar professional in a modern, free-market society is totally incompatible with being erudite and cultured.
And while relative economic advantage is undoubtedly the most potent aphrodisiac known to womankind, as a first world citizen, you enjoy that advantage already, if you move to a developing country.
If you want to leverage that, that is.
Being a successful white-collar professional in a modern, free-market society is totally incompatible with being erudite and cultured.
And while relative economic advantage is undoubtedly the most potent aphrodisiac known to womankind, as a first world citizen, you enjoy that advantage already, if you move to a developing country.
If you want to leverage that, that is.
"I can read Chinese much better than I speak it. Chinese reading is comparable to organic chem in that it's memorization of a lot of detail, with a certain amount of system to it. (The org chem students I've known have been med students, and maybe the just studied that way)."
I am exactly the same way. I can read most Mandarin writing - with the exception of material that addresses highly specialized or technical topics - with very few problems. But my listening ability is still very weak.
This is a pretty common problem - I know plenty of Sinologist who can read anything from the Warring States Period to the present, but who experience great difficulty when trying to order in restaurants.
I used to teach in Taiwan as well - while I was studying Mandarin. Great lifestyle - I think I've peroused your biography in the past, where you mentioned that you were based there in the 80's. Taipei has changed a huge amount - wonderful balance between being an affluent, capital city, yet still somehow peripheral and remote. I also like the fact that you can avail yourself of nightmarkets and stall culture, as well as some of the most magnificent, palatial shopping malls that I have ever seen.
I wasn't condoning discrimination against ESL teachers - I appreciate the point you make in your essay about how life as an itinerant, amateur scholar will not engender the praise or respect of most people. I think it's a real fucking pity.
My impression is that the monograph/thesis system emphasises writing where an unprecedented, concrete assertion must be made. This is not necessarily the best or most appropriate approach when writing about art or literature, however - when you are essentially addressing subjective perception or response.
I am exactly the same way. I can read most Mandarin writing - with the exception of material that addresses highly specialized or technical topics - with very few problems. But my listening ability is still very weak.
This is a pretty common problem - I know plenty of Sinologist who can read anything from the Warring States Period to the present, but who experience great difficulty when trying to order in restaurants.
I used to teach in Taiwan as well - while I was studying Mandarin. Great lifestyle - I think I've peroused your biography in the past, where you mentioned that you were based there in the 80's. Taipei has changed a huge amount - wonderful balance between being an affluent, capital city, yet still somehow peripheral and remote. I also like the fact that you can avail yourself of nightmarkets and stall culture, as well as some of the most magnificent, palatial shopping malls that I have ever seen.
I wasn't condoning discrimination against ESL teachers - I appreciate the point you make in your essay about how life as an itinerant, amateur scholar will not engender the praise or respect of most people. I think it's a real fucking pity.
My impression is that the monograph/thesis system emphasises writing where an unprecedented, concrete assertion must be made. This is not necessarily the best or most appropriate approach when writing about art or literature, however - when you are essentially addressing subjective perception or response.
I am literate in both French and Chinese, and in my opinion, if you are a native-speaker of English, Chinese is much more difficult to learn than French.
French is filled with cognate vocabulary - perouse any French -English dictionary and you will find that a large number of the entries consist of the same or similiar words sitting adjacent to each other.
I probably invested ten times the amount of effort and the number of hours studying Chinese to acquire a level of literacy on par with that of my French.
The amount of information you have to commit to memory is pretty formidable.
I am quite impressed if you managed to acquire literacy in Mandarin, Neanderthal . The vast majority of Chinese-language majors I have encountered from Western universities, after studying for Mandarin for four years, and spending at least 12 months in a Sinophone part of the world, are unable to read most street signs.
French is filled with cognate vocabulary - perouse any French -English dictionary and you will find that a large number of the entries consist of the same or similiar words sitting adjacent to each other.
I probably invested ten times the amount of effort and the number of hours studying Chinese to acquire a level of literacy on par with that of my French.
The amount of information you have to commit to memory is pretty formidable.
I am quite impressed if you managed to acquire literacy in Mandarin, Neanderthal . The vast majority of Chinese-language majors I have encountered from Western universities, after studying for Mandarin for four years, and spending at least 12 months in a Sinophone part of the world, are unable to read most street signs.
"there are MA and PhD programs specifically teaching how to write grants or how to run foundations. "
Really? Where?
Really? Where?
I realise that this is a science blog, and my impression is that many of its most frequent visitors hail from a science/mathematics background. Maybe I am wrong in assuming that I am one of few regular visitors trained in the humanities, but if I can provide you with a little perspective, the undergraduate,liberal arts degree that I obtained from one of the most reputable and prestigious institutions of tertiary learning in my home country (Australia) taught me absolutely nothing that I could not have learnt myself. Except, perhaps, for the fact that having Phd is no safeguard against stupidity. Some of my professors - especially those toiling within "Cultural Studies" related fields, were some of the most ignorant and intellectually parochial individuals that I have ever met.
Great piece John. Really sums up the reservations of many friends and acquaintances of mine regarding the humanities as practised in modern, academic institutions.
Would you advocate an informal republic of letters instead, where reputations or careers are based upon the acclaim or indifference of a community of eager readers and correspondants? I find this idea much more preferrable - it also produced all the great Enlightenment thinkers of the 18th century.
Would you advocate an informal republic of letters instead, where reputations or careers are based upon the acclaim or indifference of a community of eager readers and correspondants? I find this idea much more preferrable - it also produced all the great Enlightenment thinkers of the 18th century.
Or ESL in Eastern Asia - a profession which, while permitting a lifestyle of great comfort and convenience - and for many a source of great fulfillment in and of itself - remains a much despised low-status occupation within the expat communities of this part of the world.
Does enable you to lead the bohemian life of an amateur scholar that Emerson extols, however.
Does enable you to lead the bohemian life of an amateur scholar that Emerson extols, however.
Ethnic Segregation in Britain: Part 2
Which is why multculturalism, promoted with such fervent zeal in my country of birth during the 80's and 90's, is so thoroughly misguided.
By "symbolic worth" I am referring to the sense of national identification or affinity, whether derived from a common language, religion, values, history or ethnicity, that nation-states are supposed to embody. This is why I stated that nation-states aren't just mechanistic, economic and political units.
Immigration imperils such symbolic worth, if the immigrants do not correspond to the established, pre-existing form of national identification.
I do not want to give the impression that I condone strident jingoism or obdurate and unwavering attachment to national identity, or national identity described within narrow, circumscribed confines. Such sentiments are of no benefit to my family in Australia, who are of Fujianese origin.
But I do think it vital to acknowledge that such attachments are irrefutable and recurring human tendencies. And that nation-states, in order to prevail as meaningful and effective entities, need to rely on some sense of affinity and shared identity.
Immigration imperils such symbolic worth, if the immigrants do not correspond to the established, pre-existing form of national identification.
I do not want to give the impression that I condone strident jingoism or obdurate and unwavering attachment to national identity, or national identity described within narrow, circumscribed confines. Such sentiments are of no benefit to my family in Australia, who are of Fujianese origin.
But I do think it vital to acknowledge that such attachments are irrefutable and recurring human tendencies. And that nation-states, in order to prevail as meaningful and effective entities, need to rely on some sense of affinity and shared identity.
I agree with your previous post Razib - the relative benefits or deleterious effects of immigration will depend upon the national aims or priorities of the host population.
Economic prosperity and a high GDP are not the be all and end all of a nation state. Nor are nation states simply impersonal economic and administrative units - they harbour symbolic significance whether we like it or not. And the integrity of that symbolic worth may be of far greater value to denizens than soaring economic indexes.
Economic prosperity and a high GDP are not the be all and end all of a nation state. Nor are nation states simply impersonal economic and administrative units - they harbour symbolic significance whether we like it or not. And the integrity of that symbolic worth may be of far greater value to denizens than soaring economic indexes.
"But it is certainly an option the US, and more particularly Germany, Italy and a few other countries could take - so long as they are prepared for lots of belt tightening and a reduction in their current standards of living."
I am not so sure that ethnic self-interest as the basis of economic policy is a viable course of action for the first two countries - it seems to me that the first is still far too beholden to Enlightenment values, as well as too heterogenous already.
I know S. Sailer speaks at length of being a citizenist - I think that what he proposes is perfectly sensible and prudent. But I am not sure if it is strong enough to weld together the complex and disparate mass of interests and affiliations that characterise any pluralistic society.
Germany still suffers tremendous guilt for its actions during the Second World War, and I tentatively conjecture would be pretty averse to or troubled by any undue emphasis upon tribal self-interest.
There's also the problem that all first world countries suffer from - low birth rates and an aging population.
Some Japanese comic (I am not a fan of anime or manga but a friend mentioned it to me) advocated the use of robot butlers to ameliorate problems associated with an aging population, and a diminishing active work force.
I am not so sure that ethnic self-interest as the basis of economic policy is a viable course of action for the first two countries - it seems to me that the first is still far too beholden to Enlightenment values, as well as too heterogenous already.
I know S. Sailer speaks at length of being a citizenist - I think that what he proposes is perfectly sensible and prudent. But I am not sure if it is strong enough to weld together the complex and disparate mass of interests and affiliations that characterise any pluralistic society.
Germany still suffers tremendous guilt for its actions during the Second World War, and I tentatively conjecture would be pretty averse to or troubled by any undue emphasis upon tribal self-interest.
There's also the problem that all first world countries suffer from - low birth rates and an aging population.
Some Japanese comic (I am not a fan of anime or manga but a friend mentioned it to me) advocated the use of robot butlers to ameliorate problems associated with an aging population, and a diminishing active work force.
Genes and Civilisation
"against the persians the greeks are proto-europeans, but by 800 AD they become oriental byzantines. it is an annoying tendency that the historically fuzzy tend not to notice."
Good point. I've always felt the standard dichotomy of freedom- loving European Greeks versus the despotic, Oriental Persians to be spurious. I'm guessing that the Ancient Greeks would have felt a far greater affinity with the Persians at the time than with the Teutonic tribes to the north, who were to eventually become their civilizational heirs.
Good point. I've always felt the standard dichotomy of freedom- loving European Greeks versus the despotic, Oriental Persians to be spurious. I'm guessing that the Ancient Greeks would have felt a far greater affinity with the Persians at the time than with the Teutonic tribes to the north, who were to eventually become their civilizational heirs.
"i can plausibly accept a common component of variation for 3-5, and would find it plausible to accept 2 as part of the general trend. but i think 1 is outside the bounds of plausibility."
Didn't the Ancient Greeks, in spite of being an Indo-European people, share a closer affinity with the Semitic culture sphere? Their alphabet is Phoenician in origin, and according to some articles I've read, their language contains a great deal of Phoenician vocabulary.
Didn't the Ancient Greeks, in spite of being an Indo-European people, share a closer affinity with the Semitic culture sphere? Their alphabet is Phoenician in origin, and according to some articles I've read, their language contains a great deal of Phoenician vocabulary.
"The Huns were almost the same people as the Mongols, and they possessed the same fighting technology - the Composite Bow and silk shirt under leather cuirass - so what kept the Mongols in Mongolia from 500-1300?? What didn't they set about conquering the world before they did??"
John Emerson will be able to confirm this for me since the culture of the steepes is one of his specific areas of expertise - my understanding is that the Mongols complemented the insuperable military advantage provided by their mounted archers with bureaucratic practices borrowed from the Chinese. Instead of tribal affinity and nepotism serving as the basis for promotion through the ranks, Qinggis instituted reforms that made the military vocation, as Napoleon phrased it, a "career open to talent".
Throughout the history of the Common Era, alliances amongst the tribes of the steepe were highly precarious and ephemeral. The key difference with the Mongols was superior organisation.
John Emerson will be able to confirm this for me since the culture of the steepes is one of his specific areas of expertise - my understanding is that the Mongols complemented the insuperable military advantage provided by their mounted archers with bureaucratic practices borrowed from the Chinese. Instead of tribal affinity and nepotism serving as the basis for promotion through the ranks, Qinggis instituted reforms that made the military vocation, as Napoleon phrased it, a "career open to talent".
Throughout the history of the Common Era, alliances amongst the tribes of the steepe were highly precarious and ephemeral. The key difference with the Mongols was superior organisation.

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