Posts with Comments by kjs
“Ancestral North Indians”, Europeans and pigment
why else would so many people in bollywood be white indians?
Historically Bollywood had many heros/ male leads from Punjab, where people tend to be fair. The early female leads were Parsi/Anglo Indian/Muslim, who all tend to be fair.
That there is a preference for 'Fair' skin cannot be denied, given the huge profits skin creams are making.
Historically Bollywood had many heros/ male leads from Punjab, where people tend to be fair. The early female leads were Parsi/Anglo Indian/Muslim, who all tend to be fair.
That there is a preference for 'Fair' skin cannot be denied, given the huge profits skin creams are making.
This is a somewhat off-topic question, but how far over on the "light-complexion" end of the Bell Curve do Indians have to be for their fellow Indians to regard them as "non-Indian looking?" For example, I have read some internet comments (Sepia Mutiny, etc.) from Indians who regard GOP gubernatorial contender Nikki Haley as "non-Indian looking."
1) People from Northeastern states have had situations when they were not considered as 'Indian', due to thir looks.
2)We see a significant number of 'Fair' south indians and very dark Sikhs and other north Indians.
1) People from Northeastern states have had situations when they were not considered as 'Indian', due to thir looks.
2)We see a significant number of 'Fair' south indians and very dark Sikhs and other north Indians.
Language(s), then and now
Point taken, but the differences between north indians & south indians is striking. It is surprising that Genetically there is no much difference.( as per the cited study)
Hope you can throw some light for a non biological observer.
Hope you can throw some light for a non biological observer.
The thread accepts the 'aryan invasion theory', which appears rather faded/discredited now. An alternate discourse is becomming more loud.
There is also a view that Brahui speakers were decendents of early 'Tamil' invaders to the north.
There is also a view that Brahui speakers were decendents of early 'Tamil' invaders to the north.
Less than nations
Similar with Armenians. More in diaspora than in homeland ( Although they claim more areas as traditional Armenian home land)
Civilization saved the Church?
The historical data I survey above tell me that there is a very easy way to destroy organized religion: destroy organization.
Similarly it is said that the Buddhists got a severe jolt when their organisations were finally destroyed by the Muslim invaders in Eastern India.
Buddhisim never recovered in India.
Similarly it is said that the Buddhists got a severe jolt when their organisations were finally destroyed by the Muslim invaders in Eastern India.
Buddhisim never recovered in India.
We are all Protestants now….
Interestimgly, the catholics in India seems to be adopting the 'Hindu' ways, by having 'Non western' names, using Hindu spirutial ideas like the Ashrams, lighting lamps, etc.
City upon a Hill
Everybody,
Let us have some views on Huntington's Clash of Civilizations.
For a layman, the original paper was simple and offered solutions.
He has quoted M.J.Akbar who is still active in India as journo.
Let us have some views on Huntington's Clash of Civilizations.
For a layman, the original paper was simple and offered solutions.
He has quoted M.J.Akbar who is still active in India as journo.
The Mongol Art of War
Was there an Aryan Invasion of India as mentioned in a comment.
Razib, what is your take?
Razib, what is your take?
Why civilizations may clash more, not less
from an indian point of view:
a fraction of the muslim elites or ashrafs who had migrated to liberal points of view are going back to the "arab" roots although most of them have no arab roots.
there is increased voice from those sections of the muslim community who were from "lower" hindu castes to be heard, clashes between the upper caste and lower caste muslims have been reported in few places, political parties are asking for reservation quotas for such muslims. here the uniformisation compact is breaking.
a fraction of the muslim elites or ashrafs who had migrated to liberal points of view are going back to the "arab" roots although most of them have no arab roots.
there is increased voice from those sections of the muslim community who were from "lower" hindu castes to be heard, clashes between the upper caste and lower caste muslims have been reported in few places, political parties are asking for reservation quotas for such muslims. here the uniformisation compact is breaking.
What’s in a name?
The armenian "Pagan" goddess Anahita has been appropriated as virgin Mary and is still being worshipped that way.
What the shades of humanity should be
In India's huge marketplace, fair skin sells-
Preference for fair skinned females in their respective castes has been prevalent for long. However, it is the males who have started buying fairness creams now.(more likely because of adverts)
There are no mention of "White Skin" as ideal colour in the Hindu texts. But the mention of "Golden Hues" finds mention even in Vedas.
Thus northern middle east,viz Iranian, Armenian complexion with fair colour and dark hair might be the preferred complexion rather than "white". Such individuals are found even in deep south India.
It is interesting to note that many Hindu gods, Rama, Krishna and the great Sage Vyasa are dark skinned.
Preference for fair skinned females in their respective castes has been prevalent for long. However, it is the males who have started buying fairness creams now.(more likely because of adverts)
There are no mention of "White Skin" as ideal colour in the Hindu texts. But the mention of "Golden Hues" finds mention even in Vedas.
Thus northern middle east,viz Iranian, Armenian complexion with fair colour and dark hair might be the preferred complexion rather than "white". Such individuals are found even in deep south India.
It is interesting to note that many Hindu gods, Rama, Krishna and the great Sage Vyasa are dark skinned.
Necessity & sufficiency & Islam; Barack Obama is an apostate!
This is from Times of India. There are similar reports from other parts of India, where Hindus have participated.
Hindus participate in Muharram
21 Jan 2008, 0355 hrs IST,Faizan Ahmad,TNN
MUZAFFARPUR: On the tenth day of Muharram, the first month of Islamic calendar, Shia Muslims across the world spend the day in mourning to commemorate the 1327-year-old martyrdom of Hazrat Imam Hussain, his family and followers. Here on Sunday, a group of Hindus participated in the Muharram procession with equal veneration.
They claim their lineage to Hussaini Brahmin sect. And, from this year, they have revived their centuries-old tradition of shedding tears in the memory of the martyrs of Karbala -- which their ancestors used to do. Mostly Bhumihars, the group marched barefoot from Bara Imambara in Brahampur locality here beating their chest and chanting "Ya Hussain".
They also carried a banner proclaiming their sentiments towards the Imam and his martyrdom. "Our ancestors also fought in support of Imam Hussain and sacrificed their lives in Karbala and we are equally pained at the historical martyrdom," said Bhumihar Brahmin Mahasabha convenor Arun Kumar Sharma.
References in several books and records confirm that some Hindus did join Imam Hussain, the grandson of Prophet Mohammad, when he was through a bloody battle against Yezid at Karbala (in Iraq) on October 10, 680 AD.
The sect, which was later named Hussaini Brahmin, had settled on the banks of river Euphrates. Subsequently, they returned to India and assumed various titles like Datts, Mohiyals, Tyagis and many others. They also practised an intriguing blend of Islamic and Hindu traditions.
This was the first time in recent memory that the people claiming the lineage joined the Muharram rituals in this part of the country. The late Sunil Dutt, who belonged to Hussaini Brahmin sect, used to attend Muharram processions.
Asked why this practice remained discontinued for decades Sharma, a practising lawyer, said: "We can say this was the fault of our fathers and grandfathers who did not teach us about this aspect of our historical and cultural heritage."
Marching in the procession ahead of the band of young Shia youths injuring their chest and back with blades fixed to chains, small daggers or even razors, Upendra Prasad Shahi said, "The battle of Karbala was a war to save humanity and faith. We are proud that our ancestors, too, sacrificed their lives."
Legend has it that Rahab Sidh Datt had fought on behalf of Imam Hussain in the battle of Karbala, sacrificing his seven sons in the process. Rahab was the leader of a small band of career-soldiers living near Baghdad at the time of the battle of Karbala. In his novel "Karbala", Munshi Prem Chand mentions about Hindus fighting for Imam Hussai
More....
Hindus participate in Muharram
21 Jan 2008, 0355 hrs IST,Faizan Ahmad,TNN
MUZAFFARPUR: On the tenth day of Muharram, the first month of Islamic calendar, Shia Muslims across the world spend the day in mourning to commemorate the 1327-year-old martyrdom of Hazrat Imam Hussain, his family and followers. Here on Sunday, a group of Hindus participated in the Muharram procession with equal veneration.
They claim their lineage to Hussaini Brahmin sect. And, from this year, they have revived their centuries-old tradition of shedding tears in the memory of the martyrs of Karbala -- which their ancestors used to do. Mostly Bhumihars, the group marched barefoot from Bara Imambara in Brahampur locality here beating their chest and chanting "Ya Hussain".
They also carried a banner proclaiming their sentiments towards the Imam and his martyrdom. "Our ancestors also fought in support of Imam Hussain and sacrificed their lives in Karbala and we are equally pained at the historical martyrdom," said Bhumihar Brahmin Mahasabha convenor Arun Kumar Sharma.
References in several books and records confirm that some Hindus did join Imam Hussain, the grandson of Prophet Mohammad, when he was through a bloody battle against Yezid at Karbala (in Iraq) on October 10, 680 AD.
The sect, which was later named Hussaini Brahmin, had settled on the banks of river Euphrates. Subsequently, they returned to India and assumed various titles like Datts, Mohiyals, Tyagis and many others. They also practised an intriguing blend of Islamic and Hindu traditions.
This was the first time in recent memory that the people claiming the lineage joined the Muharram rituals in this part of the country. The late Sunil Dutt, who belonged to Hussaini Brahmin sect, used to attend Muharram processions.
Asked why this practice remained discontinued for decades Sharma, a practising lawyer, said: "We can say this was the fault of our fathers and grandfathers who did not teach us about this aspect of our historical and cultural heritage."
Marching in the procession ahead of the band of young Shia youths injuring their chest and back with blades fixed to chains, small daggers or even razors, Upendra Prasad Shahi said, "The battle of Karbala was a war to save humanity and faith. We are proud that our ancestors, too, sacrificed their lives."
Legend has it that Rahab Sidh Datt had fought on behalf of Imam Hussain in the battle of Karbala, sacrificing his seven sons in the process. Rahab was the leader of a small band of career-soldiers living near Baghdad at the time of the battle of Karbala. In his novel "Karbala", Munshi Prem Chand mentions about Hindus fighting for Imam Hussai
More....
Rushdie is in India now, and his hosts the industrial house "Godrejs" have been picketed. Some Muslim organisations have called Muslims to boycott all Godrej products(viz, Soaps, tooth pastes etc).
Rushdie called his detractors "Goondas"(=hooligans).
Christianity in India is taking up Hindu forms, Names, and religious worship patterns. In course of time it might become so much Hinduised, that Christians might become a Caste.
Rushdie called his detractors "Goondas"(=hooligans).
Christianity in India is taking up Hindu forms, Names, and religious worship patterns. In course of time it might become so much Hinduised, that Christians might become a Caste.
A real “Da Vinci Code”?
Any views on Hindu Texts like Vedas? It is said that Vedas open themselves to 3 levels of understanding and hence not succeptable for literal acceptance.
This has given rise to many interpretations and has probably made hinduism 'liberal' in the sense that criticism is tolerated!!
This has given rise to many interpretations and has probably made hinduism 'liberal' in the sense that criticism is tolerated!!
Important New York Times Article
Razib,
Thanks,
dont you feel that the sterotype images that brahmins are intelligent, vysyas are cleaver, etc will be reinforced.
i am a layman to this field, hence these questions!!
Thanks,
dont you feel that the sterotype images that brahmins are intelligent, vysyas are cleaver, etc will be reinforced.
i am a layman to this field, hence these questions!!
to razib,
what happens in context of india, i mean about the divisions in the south asian mass? will the differences attributed to the castes be proved by genetics?
what happens in context of india, i mean about the divisions in the south asian mass? will the differences attributed to the castes be proved by genetics?
Drink as I say
does any reference to Omar khayyum help? Ghalib in post mughal india during the early british rule was quite a drunk.
Dayananda Saraswati, and Hindu ‘fundamentalism’
Some random notes on Arya samaj:
1) Dayanand saraswathi started a movement to reconvert muslims into hinduism, called the shudhi(Purification or cleansing). He was assasinated by some angry muslims!
2)Today Arya samaj is more noted for the simplified marriage ceremony, which is adopted by many couples who do not have family approval.
3)The current leader of Arya samaj, Swami Agnivesh is seen more as a social reformer than a religious figure. He is more identified with the "secular" brigade in India.
1) Dayanand saraswathi started a movement to reconvert muslims into hinduism, called the shudhi(Purification or cleansing). He was assasinated by some angry muslims!
2)Today Arya samaj is more noted for the simplified marriage ceremony, which is adopted by many couples who do not have family approval.
3)The current leader of Arya samaj, Swami Agnivesh is seen more as a social reformer than a religious figure. He is more identified with the "secular" brigade in India.
Untied Kingdom?
For the British empire types who stoked seperatist fires in the Indian North east, sustained "the Kashmir Issue", this is bit ironic and bitter.
Good Luck to them.
Good Luck to them.
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