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March 18, 2003

Pretty ring finger

Catallaxy Files points me to this research:

Men whose ring fingers are much longer than their index fingers tend to have irregular, masculine features, such as the singer Lyle Lovett.

But men whose index and ring fingers are roughly the same length are more likely to have symmetrical faces, such as the even-featured Brad Pitt.

In women the opposite was found. Those with index fingers longer than ring fingers tend to have asymmetrical faces.

Like everyone else, I'm looking at my fingers now.

Posted by razib at 02:26 PM

Razib - I'm pretty sure you have equal length fingers.Your features are pretty symmetrical.

Posted by: Jason Soon at March 18, 2003 04:44 PM

Hmm - my ring finger is about 1 cm longer than my index finger. I've never thought of myself as being a high-T kind of guy (pretty much a laid-back bookwormy sort), but I seem to have the outward physical signs...

Posted by: jimbo at March 18, 2003 04:55 PM

no surprises - mine are of equal length. I'd rather look like Brad Pitt than Lyle Lovett so fine with me:)

Posted by: Jason Soon at March 18, 2003 05:19 PM

This stronly reminds me of the discovery that lesbians tend to have longer ring fingers than index fingers.

Posted by: michael vassar at March 18, 2003 05:48 PM

my ring finger is a 3 mm longer than my index finger.

i think the article is a bit to imprecise-brad pitt has a strong jaw for instance, he's no girly boy. but hey, it is interesting to check out ppl's fingers and cross-reference with how doggy you evaluate them as :)

Posted by: razib at March 18, 2003 05:50 PM

my ring finger is slightly longer than my index finger..but on my right hand....there is a difference of more than 1cm

Posted by: Pawan at March 18, 2003 07:27 PM


this suggests that some gay men may have more testosterone - perhaps the buggers rather than the buggered? and yes, lesbians exhibit the male pattern

"What the study showed was that lesbian women also tended to have the more "masculine" arrangement - that is, they had shorter index fingers.

But the ratio of finger sizes in men was more complicated. Comparisons between all men showed no differences. Only gay men with several older brothers had an unusually "masculine" finger ratio - in other words, they had significantly shorter index fingers."
this raises the possibility that there may be 2 kinds of gay men with one kind caused by excess testosterone

Posted by: Jason Soon at March 18, 2003 08:13 PM

A question for the audience.

I have long known that my T level is above average because I am often the following: the horniest, the hungriest, the most aggressive (in certain circumstances), the most ambitious, the sharpest (in specific subjects and regardless of arena), and the most energetic.

How can I command these traits but still have: a baby face at 28, normal endowment, only an 8/10s beard (northern european), and have been a late bloomer?

I once read that secondary sexual characteristics are determined by pre-pubescent testosterone levels, but I don't know of any evidence to suggest that one's T level would soon surpass that of his peers after puberty. I also wonder how it is possible (and it is definitely true) that I am so much more sexual than men who have much bigger testicles than I? I thought they would be the fuel for the fire so to speak.

Thanks for any insight. I am very curious to understand my physical self.


Posted by: Rocky at March 18, 2003 11:36 PM

You don't know your "T" level util you get a blood test, dude.

Or at least a saliva test.

Posted by: David at March 19, 2003 08:41 AM

Other than violence, a good proxy of your T levels would be to gauge how dominant you are in a social setting. I think it was Dabbs that did a study which showed that in a group of male doctors, peer ratings of dominance were very accurate in predicting T levels.

Dabbs has also looked at incarcerated males and found that males who are rated as dominant but non-violent have as high T levels as the most violent offenders.

You could also look at your level of muscularity as a rough approximate of your T levels, although muscularity is influenced by the amount and type of muscle fibers you possess, as well as other peptide hormones such as GH, IGF-1, and MGF.

Posted by: the alpha male at March 19, 2003 09:58 AM

"other than violence" should read: other than violent behaviour.

BTW razib, most of the time, i'm just too lazy to log into my account to make any changes.

Posted by: the alpha male at March 19, 2003 10:01 AM

I worked in nightclub security in and around Toronto when I was going to University. We had contracts with some gay bars - alot gay men are into steroids. This could explain the high T findings (but not the index finger length). The gym I used to go to in downtown TO became a "gay gym" after many years of being hardcore, the owners eventually moved it into the "gay" area of Church and Wellsley. Gay guys like the competition bodybuilder look(buff but lean and symetrical) or the lean beachbum look. I have never seen an openly gay guy who had a powerbuilder or Olympic lifter look until one night i worked at a club that was having a "gay" night.

I had a funny experience kicking out a massive, steroid induced gay male for dealing ecstasy. I catch him dealing drugs, but he's so goddamn big (and he's built like a powerlifter), I automatically think he's a straight drug dealer who's there with his stripper gf (this is a common scenario from my experience). I'm thinking, this is gonna be a battle. I grab the dude and say he's gotta go, thinking he's gonna start something. The guy almost cried. No matter how much roids he was on, he was a typical gay "sissy" (not that all gay males are sissies mind you).

Then again there's a nightclub magnate and he's openly gay - but you wouldn't know it by looking at him or speaking with him. He's a "man's man" - in demeaner and in conversation as well as physique - he's tall and extremely well built - like a lumberjack, but he doesn't look like he's on steroids (although he may have done them years ago). He also has a thing for thin, tiny east asian males. After observing gay males in nightclubs, I've noticed that even when they're drunk, they're very punctilious when it comes to following rules. Gay guys don't fight and don't bud in line at the coat check at the end of the night when they want to get out. They're even better behaved than females - but this is just my own observations, from working in nightclubs for 4 years - so take it for what it's worth.

Posted by: the alpha male at March 19, 2003 01:53 PM