Sunday, August 04, 2002


I think this has already happened... Eric Lien is perplexed as to why people expect Asians to integrate. He derides the lunacy of those who expect that:

"Asian immigrants and all their children will choose to become whites who celebrate Lunar New Year and eat foods with funny names, rather than function in the mainstream but retain a non-mainstream identity.

Hate to break it to you, but this does describe many Asian-Americans - meaning Asians born in America. Asians integrate - Latinos and blacks don't, or at least not as much. Whether you measure this integration rate by intermarriage rates, scores on the SAT-V, attendance at colleges, mingling with whites, or just general harmonious coexistence in multiracial communities, Asians do integrate after the first generation . It's just the immigrants who don't, which is perfectly understandable and no cause for concern. They're peaceful in their nonintegration and contribute to the economy, and I have yet to hear of Asian children born in the US who speak Chinese/Korean/Hindi rather than English. Contrast this to the situation of blacks and Latinos. My point being: nonintegration of Asians is a single generation affair , and no cause for concern during that single generation. Update: This is a response to Zylonet - it's too long to post in the comments box. Read his and my comments before reading this in order to understand what's going on. These are my last comments on this issue. Again, I think you need to tone down your rhetoric. You were the first to start cursing and insulting people, and this cannot and should not continue. As for your post:

"If language is your measure of "culture" then you have redefined the term ... Since female infanticide is flush throughout rural China this makes it a cultural pattern. Now if you do not share my opinion that female infanticide is a backward practice, then I think that says more about you then me. "

The culture that Asians in the US feel nostalgic for is mainly the mix of language + food + people-being-able-to-pronounce-your-name. They don't feel nostalgic for (say) the autocracy of China or the bureaucracy of India. Can you find a single organization composed of Chinese-Americans who wish to promote Chinese-style communism in the US? You need to understand that Asian immigrants generally don't endorse the political systems in the countries that they left. Female infanticide? Yes, it's horrible, but it's also irrelevant. Find me ONE example of a Chinese immigrant to the US practicing female infanticide and we'll talk. Until then, it's not the sort of culture that we're in "danger" of importing to the US by letting in Chinese immigrants.

"I was merely stating that if people from non-democratic cultures do not change their behaviors (assimilate) to promote continued democratization then it will damage society by weakening the ideal that nation's should be ruled by its citizens."

No, you weren't. You're trying to back away from the thrust of your initial argument, which was an indiscriminate indictment of Asian culture. Had you restricted your criticism to the political systems or the crimes against humanity, you might have a leg to stand on here. But your quotations give you away:

"then wish to remain isolated and claim no similarity...A comparatively paltry literary scene? The same food day after day? ...Do they think Americans are lazy? Do they think Americans are stupid? Are they insane? I see no need for any more immigrants that are so stupid as to move to Rome and then bitch about Roman culture..."

You railed against the isolation that Asians feel in America, while insulting Asian food and literature. You then set up a parallel universe in which Asians who feel out of place in America are nothing more than discontent leeches for whom you have no more patience. I think the claim that you were "merely" advocating assimilation is risible on its face.

"Well, I am sure Asians do a lot of things better than Americans, but the question wasn't whether Asian culture is superior to American culture in a half-dozen instances, it was whether new arrivals should assimilate into (and teach their children) the larger culture."

Well, hold on a second. Do you really think that Asian students in the US would do as well as they do without Asian values? Suppose they embraced the "All American" values they see on the television - do you think the values of the surrounding culture are always superior? American culture is laudable for its individualism, but it is suffused with anti-intellectualism. Those who combine independence and intellect are at an advantage, and that advantage comes from a cultural fusion rather than an uncritical acceptance of the dominant culture.

"You are entitled to your opinion. I am glad to see your communist command policies coming to the fore again. By declaring which industries people should work in you show your statist bent. I hold no such opinions. As for insinuating that I am a nativist, I think both unfair and amusing. I never suggested people should abandon some measure of native custom. Read what I said."

I think that your declarations stamp you as a nativist independent of any insinuation. As for my "communist command policies", I didn't say that people should work in those industries. Rather, I implied that people who work in these industries are more valuable to society because they're less replaceable. An investigation of the statistical record shows that Asians populate such high IQ jobs at levels vastly disproportionate to their representation in society. Thus, Asians are immigrants who can do the difficult jobs that most Americans can't. Whether you accept it or not, it is the development of new technology that drives the US economy. I think it clear that the only way that America will preserve its lead in technology is through importation of high IQ individuals from other countries, particularly those of Eastern Europe and Asia. In other words - you should be happy that Asians are coming to the US to make it stronger. If they want to bring their culture with them - meaning their thousand-year old traditions of food and language and custom - I think it is harmless to accomodate them.







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