Wired has a piece out George R. R. Martin Doesn’t Need to Finish Writing the Game of Thrones Books. The title is needlessly provocative, as there are many good points in the article (though I understand clickbait considerations). Over the years I’ve come to expect and accept that the “great fork” is here to stay, and the books and the the television shows are in some deep and fundamental ways going to be distinct narratives (though Martin and the producers of the television show assert that their conclusion will be congruent, which I actually think may not be optimal).
But the author dismisses an important point rather flippantly:
For the last few years being able to say “Sure, yes, but the books are better” has provided a nice little dopamine rush. But beyond that thrill, what Game of Thrones fans really want is more Game of Thrones. And right now, their best bet for getting that is on premium cable.
Earlier there are comparisons made to the books which inspired Jaws, The Godfather, The Shining, and Blade Runner. These are all cases where films overshadowed the literary works which preceded them.
But none of these works are on par with the world-building and richness of George R. R. Martin’s series (especially the first three books, A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, and A Storm of Swords). Additionally, in the case of the Jaws and The Godfather I think most people agree that the films are far superior artistic productions to the books. And in relation to Blade Runner, most people know that Philip K Dick’s story Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? was only tenuously connected to the movie adaptation.
I understand that writers are sometimes given tasks or make a really good pitch on the most general terms. But if the points wouldn’t pass muster wit your high school English teacher, should they pass muster with a national magazine? In the clickbait era, probably. But I’m still here to point out that Mrs. Barry would not have approved….
All the examples she gave were books adapted into films (rather than tv), and furthermore they were single books rather than a series (Godfather resulted in three films, but all the present-day stuff from 2 onwards was original, somewhat akin to The Leftovers). Lord of the Rings & Harry Potter are better known examples of adaptations these days, and are closer in genre.
Agreed on that. The world-building is better,thematically the books are far superior at holding together, the flow of character storylines are largely better, and so forth. There are complaints about the most recent two books in ASOIAF, but they’re much better than the show has been in its most recent two seasons (where it increasingly feels like they’re doing stuff just to check points off on a list of Things That Need To Happen, regardless of whether it makes sense or works in terms of themes).
As for Martin, I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he turned in Book Six this year (although I say that with reservations). He seemed to think it was a very real possibility that he could get it done by the end of last year, and was publicly apologetic when he failed.
Ah, well. If he dies before completing Book 7 and allows for the last book to be finished posthumously, I have a pretty good idea of who would write it.
I don’t think the recent seasons are the result of “checking things off that need to happen.” I think we have TV level writing talents who now only have an outline to work from instead of fleshed out scenes to crib.
To me the most important line in Razib’s post is “especially the first three.” I flamed out pretty quick in book four. There’s no way I’m going to find time to read the rest of the series in the unlikely event he completes it. And the show just isn’t really that good. But when it was really good it got so popular that without even trying I have soaked up a lot of spoilers and speculations of what’s to come (that sure ring true).
So it’s a bummer that a story that started out as well as any I’ve read/watched, with 3 great novels and one amazing season of TV, doesn’t feel worth finishing in either format.
I am coming at it as someone who watched the first season and then read the first 3 books. Had I been a long time fan of the books, it would probably be tougher to divorce myself from it.
That’s what it feels like. Things happen in the fifth and sixth seasons, and it comes across as “Oh, we need to have so-and-so here, have them do this, etc” regardless of whether they get the characters there in a way that’s thematically valuable or makes sense in terms of character development. It’s how we ended up with the abysmal Dornish storyline of Season 5, or the ending to Season 6 (explaining what I mean would bring spoilers – not sure if Razib wants those here).
I get that they’re only working from an outline, but then shouldn’t they be building to something else, fleshing it out in their own way? Yet it doesn’t feel like that either. I expect more from show-runners running HBO’s flagship series.
You guys should check out thelasthearth.com. It’s a very sober and knowledgeable group of posters. The show is treated fairly, the books (and GRRM) are fairly analyzed and criticised. I’ve been impressed with their stuff.
The books are kind of weird in that they’re written in the style of epic fantasy, which usually has a central plot and characters and a beginning, middle and end, etc. But even by the end of the first book, and certainly by the end of the third, whatever hints of a central story there were have more or less evaporated, to the point that the last two books are basically just a series of vignettes taking place in a shared world with shared characters.
But people (including Martin) still discuss them like there’s some sort of main plot conflict to be resolved.
middle books often have this problem. but martin has said long ago that the books will shift from GoT intrigue and personas to the ‘big theme’ of ‘good’ vs. ‘evil’ and more magic over time. seems pretty obvious that right now the plotlines are going to converge, be tied up, and have a more conventional epic fantasy lead up (though martin is going to play with the conventions).
5000+ pages in seems a little late to introduce your “big theme”. 🙂
the big theme is the first thing introduced in GoT. the war in the north.
IMHO everything on the show is good except the writing. For the most part the actors are great, the cinematography is superb for TV, the characters are now well defined, the set design and the effects are top notch, etc. This is enough to basically ignore the mediocre writing except in the cases where it’s just ridiculously awful, like the Sand Snakes.
And as was noted, the writing of GRRM’s series really takes a turn for the worse starting in the fourth book. He apparently grew too powerful for any editor to control, so they are rife with boggy purple prose. Some of the individual arcs (like the redemption of Jamie Lannister, or Bran’s adventures in the north) work well, but other elements are just plodding, with hundreds of pages of text passing by before anything of significance happens in the wider plot. The worldbuilding is much better, but on the whole I’d prefer mediocre writing which feels like it’s going somewhere to muddled writing which is seemingly endlessly circling around the plot point.
Without getting into spoilers, leaks of Martins’s original plans for the then trilogy (!) show quite different paths to many characters.
While I’m sure some Long term themes and outcomes were always planned (Jon Snows parentage, Dany coming to Westeros), Martin has always been upfront about being a gardener not an architect, and it shows.
So while yes the idea of magic And the good v evil grand struggle taking over the plot against the more petty House wars was always an overarching idea, I think Martin has thrown a lot of new ideas and pulled others out along the way.
And as Razib says, middle books are hard. They require discipline. For an author starting a series is likely far more fun, the field is open, anything is possible…. Middle books are hard work, finding constraints, realising you’ve created knots, opportunities you missed…
It became pretty evidently by end of book 3 and certainly book 4 that Martin was in trouble, and book 5 was a disaster of Robert Jordan magnitude in terms of “oh wow this is going nowhere.”
At this point I’d put odds of us seeing books finished by Martin at under 50%, dropping by the month. He no longer seems like an author with a burning desire to tell a story, but rather a curmurdgeon writer annoyed by fans and their irrationally high expectations that he realises he can’t fill, with a story he seems to Long have stopped caring about as much (though he certainly loves the fame he feels entitled to and the sweet revenge/acknowledgement in Hollywood where he once worked).
“doesn’t feel worth finishing in either format.”
C’mon, when the dragons start melting hordes of wights it’s going to be awesome!