I am trying to make a second go-around the whole audiobook thing. For whatever reason, I’m not very good at listening to books, as opposed to reading them. I’ve spent a lifetime reading, but am not the best listener. Books require concentrated attention across many sequences of ideas and thoughts, and I’m much better with text than audio when it comes to that.
But I’ve decided to try listening to Plato’s The Republic while I’m exercising. I read portions of The Republic as an undergraduate, but the reality is so many of the concepts therein have been internalized and interpreted throughout Western culture that it’s not too difficult to follow the abstractions. I follow Karl Popper in taking a dim view of Plato’s influence on Western civilization, but one cannot deny that influence.*
My biggest reaction listening so far (I’m 10% of the way in) is that Socrates is incredibly unpleasant. Though the sophist Thrasymachus is presented as something of a fool, his critique of Socrates’ schtick seems spot-on. I don’t recall finding Socrates so unpleasant when reading the text years ago. But listening to someone speaking in Socrates’ voice, his somewhat boorish nature comes through.
A final note, when encountering ancient philosophy at some level of depth at around the age of twenty, I was always struck by how modern their thinking was in many ways. Is that because they were like us? Or we are like them?
* My anti-Plato partisanship is not strongly held. To some extent, Plato is at the root of much that is good and evil.
I am difficulty in understanding what is even the point of audiobooks (other thing that I found silly are the youtube channels where almost all the videos are simply the author talking to the camera – why not write a blog instead?).
I imagine that, in audiobooks: a) you need more time to listen than the time you will need to read the real book; b) you can’t listen music while you listen to the book; c) you have to pay more attention – while listening to an audiobook, if you start thinking about other thing, you will loose what is being said; d) you will be more easily distracted by usually irrelevant things, like the accent of the narrator. Saying that, what is the added value of an audiobook over a book; some as to be – after all, there is market for audiobooks – but I can’t understant what could be (perhaps in some works listening the accent of the characters is important to establish things like regional origin, but I doubt that there are many books where this is important)
One advantage of audiobooks is that you can listen to them at times when you would not be able to read. Razib mentioned working out. I listen when driving or doing household chores.
There are also some books where you get extra layers of meaning and enjoyment from having them read aloud. For example, I recently read Frederick Forsyth’s autobiography and switched from the kindle to the audio version part way through because the anecdotes were much livelier in the audio version.
Admittedly there are some books that are not well suited for the audio format. I once listened to the audio version of Tetlock’s Expert Political Judgment and a lot of it was reading off the numbers from tables.
My first reading of The Apology in which Socrates makes his defense to the Athenians left me admiring him. I was in high school.
When I read it again 30 years later I thought ‘no wonder they killed him’. He was insufferable and seemed determined to enrage them.
I am not sure Plato ages well.
Many years ago I read Bloom’s version of The Republic. Socrates discussion with Glaucon and Adeimantus in Book VIII about the personalities that create the types of economic-political systems and how they evolve was eye-opening. And this was written almost 2.5 millennia ago!
There is at least one scholarly opinion that “Socrates” may have been a foil for Plato.
Izzy Stone’s “Trial of Socrates” is an interesting read.
When I read it again 30 years later I thought ‘no wonder they killed him’. He was insufferable and seemed determined to enrage them.
this is my thought exactly. no wonder they killed him!
Yeah, it’s a fun book.
I had the same evolution in my thinking about Bruno. In both cases, they rushed to their own deaths in the ancient equivalent of suicide by cop.
I forget who it was that said of Bruno that no man ran more willingly to the stake. Socrates had much the same death wish.
There is no prima facie reason why Plato’s opinions of matters needs be the same as those he puts in Socrates’ mouth in the Phaedo or in any other dialogue. Plato is free to make Socrates say whatever an invented context requires. Aside their philosophical content, it is often forgotten that the dialogues are also atomic, independent short-stories. We may infer that by publishing more than a score of dialogues, Plato demonstrated that he delighted in inventing and writing up events each of which would elicit some of Socrates’ store of useful philosophical observations. The Socrates of the Symposium and of the Lysis show how inconsistently Plato represented the philosopher. In the former, Socrates gives a speech extolling an elevated eros that transcends sensual eros. In the latter, he facilitates Hippothales’ real life seduction of a beautiful boy. In the Apology at 29a4–b1, Socrates claims to be agnostic regarding the survival of the soul after death. In the Phaedo, he argues that the soul is immortal.
I am difficulty in understanding what is even the point of audiobooks (other thing that I found silly are the youtube channels where almost all the videos are simply the author talking to the camera – why not write a blog instead?).
the thing is most podcasts and youtube channels are extemporaneous and unstructured. the data density is low. ‘audiobooks’ are structured in a dense way like books. this is why i never ‘multi-task’ with audiobooks…you can’t sample in and out and get anything out of it. in contrast, podcasts and youtubes can be broken down into small chunks.
you closed comments on the pinned books thread so i can’t resist posting what audio books i’ve liked recently. FYI Pocket let’s you listen to articles you upload too, for anyone who wants to plow through those #longreads while they cook or workout.
(re-read) Lee Smolin’s “Three Roads to Quantum Gravity,” one of my all-time favs
“The Founding Myth” https://www.salon.com/2019/05/18/demolishing-the-rights-founding-myth-america-was-never-a-christian-nation/ very good so far
“Amusing ourselves to death” summary: ppl used to read for entertainment, now they watch TV
“The Hidden History of Guns and the Second Amendment”
“The closing of the american mind” (classic about how post-modernism took over, a conservative whine list)
“The Theft of a Decade” (very data-driven version of “A generation of psychopaths.”) A take-down of boomers written by a young conservative.
“Globalists” fantastic book of the history of neoliberalism https://areomagazine.com/2018/11/25/a-review-of-quinn-slobodians-globalists-the-end-of-empire-and-the-birth-of-neoliberalism/
“Bad Samaritan” by Ha-Joon Chang (review of all of the protectionist/gov’t intervention policies that current “free-trade” countries had and still have.)
Pickettey’s “Capital” – one the the best books i’ve ever read
“Antifa” history of antifa, makes a pretty good case for their existence
“Empire of Liberty: A History of the Early Republic” by Gordon S. Wood. (absolutely fantastic book, one of the best i’ve ever read)
“The Neanderthals Rediscovered”
“Why We Sleep” really good one on the science of sleep
“The Hungry Brain” by Stephan Guyenet (very good book on obesity)
“Listen Liberal” by Thomas Frank (an indictment of progressives written by a progressive)
“Death by China” by Peter Navarro (completely explains the MO behind Trump’s current China policy)
“The Ends of the World” (really good one about past major extinctions and their implications for the future)
“Deadly Companions” history of human plagues and how they’ve guided the evolution of our immune system
“Operation Paperclip” completely insane rundown of Nazi experiments
“The Captured Economy” by Brink Lindsey (all the Boomer-hate data you’ll ever need)
“The True Flag” (100 years ago we had a national debate about imperialism and this describes that atmosphere)
“Fallout” about the insane way we store nuclear waste and all of the accidents we’ve had with nukes
“America’s War for the Greater Middle East” explains motives behind our ME policy over the last few decades
you closed comments on the pinned books thread so i can’t resist posting what audio books i’ve liked recently. FYI Pocket let’s you listen to articles you upload too, for anyone who wants to plow through those #longreads while they cook or workout.
ah. i reopened. the comments close automatically after 2 weeks
Razib: I will be interested in your reaction to the coda of Book X.
My argument for audio books is to read fiction. I listened to the Odyssey earlier this year and it was a great experience. But the Odyssey does not have arguments, nor does it have facts I might want to highlight or write objections to in the margin. Audiobooks are made for narratives–all of the sci fi and fantasy novels you like to read!
“I’d Rather Read With My Ears: The ‘Iliad’ was an audiobook before it was a printed one.” By Daryl Austin on Aug. 18, 2019
https://www.wsj.com/articles/id-rather-read-with-my-ears-11566158273
A friend recently asked how I read so many books so quickly. When I told him I listen to each one as an audiobook, he guffawed: “That doesn’t count!” He isn’t alone in that view, but that doesn’t mean he’s right. Humans, after all, weren’t always so beholden to the written word. From ancient Greek philosophers and Elizabethan thespians to revivalist preachers and barnstorming politicians, the world has long been captivated by the spoken word. Before the Sermon on the Mount became a series of Bible chapters, it was . . . a sermon.
Jessica Hamzelou explains in the New Scientist that when our minds wander, they switch “into autopilot mode,” which enables us to “carry on doing tasks quickly, accurately, and without conscious thought.” The region of our brains that does this is called the default mode network, or DMN, and it becomes active only when performing rote tasks. Driving, mundane work assignments, chores, exercising and grocery shopping can all be repetitive activities. Such tasks are likely to activate your brain’s DMN. If you’re going to perform the same rote activities anyway, why not immerse yourself in a good book at the same time?
Homer didn’t write the “Iliad” or the “Odyssey” to be read on a page, and Shakespeare’s plays were meant to be heard and seen on a stage. As the theater and film bring words to life, so too narration enhances the overall experience.